Raids! All... two of them...

Read the official announcement here.

I figured someone would have posted this here by now, but despite pushing back the release of the important Patch 1.18 (which, among other things, will introduce raid content and the beginnings of the battle system revamp), Square Enix has finally announced two raid zones--one high level and one mid-level.

And at this point, I can't help but throw up my hands and ask "So what?" Patches 1.17a-c have been out for a while, but none were especially substantial on the content end, which is probably Final Fantasy XIV's most glaring fault right now. Ten months from Final Fantasy XIV's launch and the only endgame to speak of appears to be a small number of notorious monsters and one high-level dungeon raid.

At this point, I couldn't even mount of a proper defense even if I thought one was deserved. At this current pace, it's become clear to me that any substantial changes to Final Fantasy XIV are likely to be too little too late. Even under new, enthusiastic leadership in the form of Yoshi-P, the development team proves that they can't develop the type and volume of content necessary to compete with other MMORPGs on the market. Even should they manage to turn the game around with time into something brilliant, I sincerely doubt that it will ever recover to the point that it can compete with the other AAA titles in the genre on any meaningful level.

Unless Square Enix decides to throw us a curve ball and release a number of changes in rapid succession (not totally beyond them, I suppose, but Yoshi-P has been pretty honest about the production schedules no matter how disappointing they continually prove to be, so I'm not holding my breath), I think it's fair to say that Square Enix have failed.

I won't be playing.

I wonder what FF11 would have been like if they had poured all the FF14 resources into FF11.

I don't really understand how you could have been expecting more. It has been known for ages now, by the way, that there would only be two dungeons. Why would they make more if it would hold back the schedule even further, not to mention if they have to rework them for any reason then it means an even longer delay. This is the introduction of a new thing for FFXIV, and the patch also includes a complete reworking of the battle system. Although not in this patch, they are also reworking the job system altogether. Which in itself will come with very little content.

I mean, I'm as annoyed as anyone at the lengthy schedule but it can only be expected as aside from the graphics and the lore (and even some of that has been affected) everything is changing.

I don't care if it won't compete with WoW. Genuinely don't give a tit. I played FFXI in 2008 and FFXIV now isn't much different population-wise, and I had a load of fun in that FFXI and met a lot of people. Until they say "right, we're going to release the PS3 version and start charging you all" just consider it a giant ongoing beta. They can't do content and rework the battle system and all the other crap everyone wants done all at once. The currently-named materia system is being worked on at the moment, the job system is being worked on at the moment, there are probably about a dozen major changes to the gameplay they are working on at once. With no money coming in. It's going to take time. But when it's ready, have a look. If you're treating it as a full game at the moment and judging every release as if "this is the one that will make the game chargeable" then you're only going to be disappointed at every turn. It's a silly way to look at things. They will not release more than the bare minimum of content until they have the mechanics set up (which is what the bare minimum content is there to test - hence the low amount of it). They need to save the bulk content for the expansion packs, as is always the case in MMO's. If they released everything now, where would we be when the PS3 version comes out? There would be nothing for them to release. It would delay the schedule even longer, the patches would come out slower, the whole thing would end up rubbish.

Make changes, test, stabilise, make pretty, go live. And a lot of changes are being made, so, yeah.

You're content to sit back and wait for them to make (admittedly necessary and beneficiary) changes to core game play because you barely play. You've said that you log in once in a blue moon to do some crafting here and there. Your opinion of what dictates an acceptable amount of content might be different if you were one of the guys sitting at level 50 on multiple jobs killing the same few NMs over and over.

Not that I mean to knock your play-style. It's definitely a lot healthier than that of the average person playing an MMORPG. But therein lies the problem: the average person playing MMORPGs plays a heck of a lot more than you. You may be content with sitting back and waiting for them to move beyond fixing the core mechanics (which, admittedly, is all necessary), but most people aren't. It's why people aren't lining up to play FFXIV even though it's subscription free.

End game content will come but they need to at least give themselves the chance to test it out given that, as pointed out, it's now (and everyone seems to concede this) a lengthy beta testing period. When they're happy with it, and with the other changes they have to do, they will then focus on extending and expanding what they have. But until they have it, it would be folly to throw all their resources into one thing when there are so many things that the fans feel need to be addressed. Imagine if indeed they did have four raid dungeons - how much longer would people be waiting? Another week, two, three, more?

I don't know the ins and outs of it, but given how much they are taking on at one time, I would say that you can expect a lot of this sort of thing. A couple of this, a couple of that, bits and bobs here and there until they are happy and then they can do the much easier task of getting more of the same kind of thing pushed out.

People who are already level 50 in all ends of things and that have nothing to do are generally the same people who are doing the most complaining, so they are only adding to the delays before more stuff is introduced. They want everything, but obviously not everything can be done at the same time. It makes sense to wait. And if they are that dedicated towards getting numerous level 50 characters, then obviously they are already fairly committed to the 'cause' of FFXIV and will hang around, keep playing and keep complaining until the game is close to what they expected in the first place and then they will get what they want.

I am going to reserve all judgement for this game until the PS3 version is released. But I will say that so far it looks like the evolution of this game into something worth investing my time into is progressing much slower than I would have anticipated.

BoBsicle: I guess I can only speak for a handful of people, but we're still jaded simply because we spent a lot of money on a really bad beta. Almost a year later and it's progressed to a proper beta. So you have to understand why we are being overly critical on this.

But I'm with Del, I won't give up looking forward to what may come until the PS3 release comes.

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Originally Posted by Rostum

BoBsicle: I guess I can only speak for a handful of people, but we're still jaded simply because we spent a lot of money on a really bad beta. Almost a year later and it's progressed to a proper beta. So you have to understand why we are being overly critical on this.

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Aside from that, the first five or six years of Final Fantasy XI's lifespan, Square Enix constantly shafted and shat on its players. I've been burned too many times to give Square Enix the benefit of the doubt anymore.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ouch!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rostum

BoBsicle: I guess I can only speak for a handful of people, but we're still jaded simply because we spent a lot of money on a really bad beta. Almost a year later and it's progressed to a proper beta. So you have to understand why we are being overly critical on this.

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Aside from that, the first five or six years of Final Fantasy XI's lifespan, Square Enix constantly shafted and shat on its players. I've been burned too many times to give Square Enix the benefit of the doubt anymore.

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Yeah but I still love(d) FFXI then. :( At least Yoshi-P is the biggest hope that things could get turned around.

I thought that you guys always said that the later years were when FFXI got screwed? /me confused :S When were the best years of FFXI?

I think someone said recently somewhere about FFXIV that they are okay with things purely on the basis of them slowly heading in the right direction is far better than them quickly heading in the wrong direction.

There was a period from about 2007-2009 that the development team for Final Fantasy XI really started making a lot of changes that the community had been demanding for a long time: additional nomad moogles in Selbina and Mhaura, reduced entry fees and times for end-game events such as Dynamis, introduction of features like Level Sync and Fields of Valor to assist in the low- and mid-level grind. After that, when they announced the increase in the level cap, they started taking it in another direction completely which was more directed toward casual gamers but revolved around tedium. I never stuck around long enough with Abyssea to decide if I really liked it or not.

And I suppose I'll concede that point. It's at least good that they're showing progress toward something positive rather than away from it. I'm just very concerned at this point that by the time Square Enix has made the game worthy of a monthly fee and PS3 release that they're already going to be behind in comparison to the other games coming out.

They might be. But think about WoW, Ragnarok Online, FFXI. It's not always about having the best graphics, and I don't think FFXIV is that lacking in that department anyway. :p If they keep improving, so long as you like the lore and the gameplay then the graphics shouldn't matter that much. As for the other games coming out, they will be in their own "startup" stages and will face their own problems. They will be MMO's, after all.

I don't think you're quite realizing how much things are changing with the way that the MMORPG genre is headed right now. As far as things go, Square Enix is still clinging to some pretty archaic models. There's big potential that the game will be very dated very quickly, and I don't mean insofar as how it looks.

Where is it headed? Can you give me a bit more info? Don't say "You don't know!"... tell me! :p

Most of the MMORPGs in development are becoming far more experimental in terms for their game play. Action elements are taking larger roles resulting in faster, more varied game play. The typical trinity of damage dealer, healer, and tank is quickly dissipating (although, as I understand it, FFXIV has done a better job keeping up with that) and it's hard to tell where that's going. Star Wars: The Old Republic is looking to bring in an unprecedented level of interactivity with an actual story by bringing in full voice acting throughout as well as conversations including your entire party and NPCs.

My concern is that FFXIV is spending too much time fixing things by going backwards (such as introducing what appears to be a very slow auto-attack mechanic) while other games are pushing the genre forward. They're playing it safe, which is understandable, but it could hurt them in the long run. About the only thing that Final Fantasy XIV does that other games typically don't is the ability to play multiple jobs on a single character, which is really the only innovative thing that Final Fantasy XI ever did. Hopefully the job system brings something more interesting to that mechanic, though.