The Power of Emotion (Endgame Spoilers)

I was considering once again the ending Ragnarok deus-ex-machina, and I came up with an interesting idea.

What if fal'Cie don't control l'Cie at all?

I mean, a fal'Cie brands a l'Cie, and they get all sorts of nifty progress and a goal, but that's it.

The progress of the brand, slowly getting bigger and bigger, occurs with changes in mental status and emotions, not at the whim of the fal'Cie. We see this numerous times in the game.

So what if the transformations of l'Cie are actually controlled by them as well?

When a l'Cie "fails" in their task, they get overwhelmed by despair, and trigger a transformation to a Cie'th. A hopeless, shambling creature of misery.

When they complete their task, they are overwhelmed with satisfaction and contentment, triggering a transformation to crystal. This is also why Cid transformed, even though his task wasn't completed, because in his defeat he was completely satisfied by the outcome. Just as the Cie'th is an entity of despair, so to is the crystal symbolic of its trigger. The person sleeps in crystal stasis because it is a form that simply continues unchanging for eternity.

Ragnarok is simly another transformation, triggered by the buildup of hatred and anger. Unlike both Cie'th and crystals, this form is an active one, because hatred is a more active emotion. It becomes the embodiment of the l'Cie's destructive force, striking out with fury.

And this would explain the ending. Fang and Vanille never became Ragnarok, they endured another change, one triggered by love and the desire to protect. This emotion, greater even than rage, transformed them into a new, different creature, giving them a heretofore unseen power. Which they used to protect those they cared about, and, with their objective achieved, lapsed into a contented crystal sleep.


Thus, the fal'Cie don't directly control the l'Cie at all. They merely unlock a power and point them towards a goal. After people see the first few failures give up and become Cie'th, the rules start to write themselves, and are self-reinforcing. The transformation to Cie'th is, ironically enough, fueled by the belief that becoming a Cie'th is what awaits one, as it leaves no path but despair.

yeah sounds accurate.

i don't think the fal'cie ever control l'cie anyway, but i think you mean to say that the fal'cie don't control the change of the l'cie.
that's true too, i think. otherwise all the l'cie would complete their tasks, but that doesn't happen as evidenced by the many c'ieth running about.

i like to think that the goals are tied to a higher plot, but i guess that doesn't really work either. serah turned crystal after getting the main party together in one spot, but she didn't seem super happy with her achievement. although maybe seeing snow and her sis again made her feel those comforting/lovey feelings.

shaz's kid turned earlier than he was supposed to as well, didn't he?

i think the goals aren't always defined properly either. if the visions are as dumb and unhelpful as the main party had, then it's no surprise that people get frustrated with their chances.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

When they complete their task, they are overwhelmed with satisfaction and contentment, triggering a transformation to crystal.

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So this would mean that, in theory, after a large dump you could turn into crystal?

FF13 characters don't poop
have you ever seen a bathroom anywhere?

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Originally Posted by krissy

FF13 characters don't poop
have you ever seen a bathroom anywhere?

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Come to think of it, I didn't see a bathroom in Hope's house..

it would seem from the context of the story that the most a Fal'Cie does in the manner of control over a L'Cie is what Barthandalus demonstrated and thats pure manipulation, once they give someone the power of a L'Cie they have no direct control of that power but rather try to manipulate the desired goal from the L'Cie they "created"... thats what i took just from playing the game, after reading your post Sky, it gells with what i took from the game and therefore a sound conclusion on how emotion is the underlying trigger for change in my opinion... heck the game was all about change, when you think about it change and how people handle it was the central theme...

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Originally Posted by NeoCracker

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

When they complete their task, they are overwhelmed with satisfaction and contentment, triggering a transformation to crystal.

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So this would mean that, in theory, after a large dump you could turn into crystal?

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That theory is flawed. We've all heard how 'overwhelmed' and 'satisfied' Vanille sounds when casting spells in battle. She should have turned back into crystal long ago

Don't make excuses for poor writing by trying to shoehorn theories into explaining away a very obvious deus-ex-machina. While plausible, this ultimately has no more value than the indoctrination theory did for the ending of Mass Effect 3. These exercises fall on their face for a simple reason: Occam's razor.

Which is more likely? That the writers very subtly introduced a few elements that mean that deus ex machina is actually a carefully crafted plot device and sufficient foreshadowing that the writers neglected to ever confirm or that it was just a poorly-executed deus-ex-machina to dig the writers out of a dead end in the story? If this was the intended interpretation, I imagine that it would have been exposed more explicitly after the fact beyond "We controlled hatred with the power of loooooooooove."

Basically, I do not believe that the writers were so good that they intended something so subtle when there is plenty of evidence contrary to them being capable of it.