Turn based Final Fantasy (or any other modern RPGs). Should we do away with it?

OK, so I have been playing Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, and think its a brilliant game. I love the battle system, story, gameplay etc etc. I feel like this game really gets back into the roots of what makes a great RPG, something that other Final Fantasy games were becoming lost at. I think part of the reason Final Fantasy XIII was poor was because it was trying to sell itself too much on a cinematic type storyline and not enough on gameplay, which A Realm Reborn rectifies. I also really enjoy the change in battle system in XIV. Its a subtle enough change from the typical turn based combat to make the game more fun, but also keep the familiarity of it being an RPG.

I see that Lightening Returns has gone back to the turn based system of its predecessors, which I don't know whether its a bad or good thing. I am sort of burnt out on turn based games now, and I feel like RPGs, in general, are moving away from turn based combat. I am aware the XV will be action based, but again, don't know how the actual battle system will play out.

Anyway, my main point is, does anyone else feel like JRPGs should be moving away from turn based combat? I, myself, say yes, JRPGs need to move away from turn based combat, in particular with games that are coming out for more technologically advanced consoles like the PS4 and Xbox One. I believe that turn based combat was more appropriate during the SNES/PS1/PS2 eras, rather than these last and current generations. So yeah, it would be cool to hear how other Final Fantasy fans feel about this.

I miss turn based. I think X-2 did it really well. I would consider that the ideal. VIII did a good job also, the battles didn't drag on. IX is my favorite but I admit that the turn based system wasn't the greatest. The battles, especially early on, were quite slow and sluggish.

Anyways, I think if its done properly I love the turn based and I would like to see more games with that style.

Moved this thread to General Gaming for you.

And personally? I enjoy turn-based, and I enjoy the newer "fast paced" systems. It's all just mashing buttons in the end. x}

Almost no modern console JRPGs are turn-based. I wish they were.

Bravely Default did turn-based expertly. It's a terrific game :) I've experienced burn-out in both turn-based and action-based RPGs personally, so I think there's a place for both in the gaming world.

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Originally Posted by shion

I miss turn based. I think X-2 did it really well. I would consider that the ideal. VIII did a good job also, the battles didn't drag on. IX is my favorite but I admit that the turn based system wasn't the greatest. The battles, especially early on, were quite slow and sluggish.

Anyways, I think if its done properly I love the turn based and I would like to see more games with that style.

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Yes, turned-based combat was done really well in FFX-2. It blended tactics and decision making with fast-paced action. XIII wasn't turned based at all, though it tried to pretend it was. It was more of a 'combat flow' management system than a turn-based system.

I miss turned-based games on consoles and I'd love to see a major release in the future. However, there have been plenty of great turned-based games released for handhelds over the last several years. I can't wait to play Bravely Default as I hear it's a great return to turned-based combat. :ffvisexy:

...but just get the feeling that more modern games should have more modern battle systems. I feel like in smaller systems, handheld primarily, that turn based battle is probably better. I got Project X Zone for Christmas and love the turn based combat of this game, and I also love turn based combat in older RPGs. I love the freedom you have with A Realm Reborn, that you aren't locked into battle. Having the an open world and the ability to make choices without being locked into a specific mission or battle makes this game the perfect Final Fantasy for me. I don't know how much this game has sold, but I would definitely recommend this game to most people, and this is coming from someone who didn't like the game the first couple of days I played it. I hope we get more Final Fantasy games as innovative as A Realm Reborn. I am excited about XV and think Lightening Returns looks good.

I see that the battle system in XV will sort of be a little bit more like Kingdom Hearts, which I don't know if this will be a bad thing or a good thing. We will have to see.

One more point I wanted to make about A Realm Reborn. I appreciate that SE did away with the cyber punk futuristic setting for once. Its sort of played out in my opinion. Most RPGs seem to be more about a medieval setting anyway, so perhaps Final Fantasy should go more towards this kind of setting.

While I understand the aspect of getting burned out on certain games, I don't think calling a turn based system out-dated is fair.

I personally really like turn-based when it is done correctly. FF x-2 has been pointed out by a few people. The fighting system is what made me want to play the game.

I like it when RPGs try innovative things, and I am open to different combat systems. That doesn't mean that turn-based should be shelved, relegated to only hand held systems, or viewed as too old. A well refined, smooth TBS easily feels as slick and modern as anything else Ive seen in an RPG.

Some of these newer combat systems that try to more closely mimic combat in WoW or other MMORPGs actually come across as shallow or stale, in my opinion, because it doesn't seem like they've managed to port it over to RPGs in a convincing manner.

I feel like the game is on auto-pilot too much, and that I'm not as involved. When you combine that issue with character progression and development that is very linear and limited, like FF13, the entire experience starts to feel way less inspired, modern, and involving.

EDIT: I also find it interesting that you mention how several more modern FF games have used a modern or futuristic setting (cyber punk) for the world. story, and characters, and you feel it's played out. I find it interesting because that indicates you feel that it's an old idea, but then suggest that Squeenix should consider going back to a medievil theme because that's what most RPGs do. So you're suggesting that Squeenix fix something that you feel has become stale by rehashing a theme that is even more common, has been used in RPGs even longer, and has therefore seen even more saturation issues?

I don't mind an RPG with an old school feel, I just find it interesting that you would complain of a combat system being too old, and then want to see a more modern RPG theme replaced with one that has been done to death.

My point isn't that you're wrong, it's only your opinion, which can't be wrong. My point is that there's certain aspects of games you'll either like or won't. You may even like them in one game because you feel they were done better than in another. That doesn't seem like enough reason to say "This idea should be done away with or only reserved for hand-held systems." By that logic, all RPGs should be MMORPGs, with a more modern, sci-fi feel, etc. etc. etc. because the rest of the ideas are too old. Those are more modern.

Part of the reason I tire of the whole cyber punk thing is because its been done to death since Final Fantasy VII. I think XIII proved that the futuristic design idea has now grown stale. I think its sad that Final Fantasy has gone down the road of aiming to fit a certain mold, but perhaps many people feel that if FF went with a more medieval setting than that will be trying to chase trends too. I wouldn't actually mind Final Fantasy doing the idea that VII was originally supposed to be, with the detective and everything. Would be an interesting change.

Final Fantasy XIV was more interesting for me because it is the first Final Fantasy game to go back to Final Fantasy's roots since the first half of the series. I think the series has gotten stuck in a rut of relying too much on storyline rather than gameplay, thus FFXIII falling short like it did. Games shouldn't rely so heavily on storyline in my opinion, or at least not rely on storyline at the expense of gameplay. Final Fantasy is definitely guilty of doing this, particularly with XIII and some of the other games in the series. So yeah, I'd personally prefer Final Fantasy to go more into the direction that XIV has. Would be cool to have different scenarios that lead to bigger storylines/plots in future games. The linear, story driven gameplay is out of dare now, in my opinion.

I think turn-based can exist side-by-side with other RPG battle systems. Sort of like how there are both turn-based and real-time strategy and tactics games.

Sometimes I just want to play something nice and oldschool and grindy and turn-based.

They offer variety, so no. We shouldn't do away with them.

Sadly, many people complain about certain mechanics being "outdated", which I think is BS when it comes to games. If everything follows the same trends, it all becomes uniform. Games need variety, so there's no room for a concept of being outdated.

Also, XII was more fantasy than sci-fi and relied more on gameplay than story.

I am also sick to death of people considering handheld games "lesser", especially considering that's where JRPGs flourish nowadays.

I find it hilarious that you use XIII as your argument against turn-based combat.

XIII's problems weren't centered over a lack of gameplay in exchange for story. They were centered around crippling problems with both gameplay and story.

Had XIII properly delivered on the cinematic story, 95% of the fans would not have cared about the gameplay one way or another. The biggest complaints about it were about how badly its story botched.

The biggest complaints about the battle system, on the other hand, were about how restrictive it was. The artificial cap to your "levels" in the Crystarium was complained about far more than the gameplay itself. The biggest complaint about the combat mechanics was the overall lack of interactivity with the system outside of the Paradigms (which is only made worse by the restrictions on how little there is to do before the real options unlock). In fact, the semi-real time nature of the combat hurt this game's systems overall, because it meant that the combat progressed far to quickly to make choosing commands in battle worthwhile. You essentially auto-battle every fight, because choosing commands real-time would result in you taking nearly twice as long to perform each action, and therefore you would find things a lot harder.

Heck, I'd argue that XIII's system wasn't even turn-based. But having a turn-based system had nothing to do with how well the game was received.


Personally, I prefer turn-based by far over real time, because too many real time combat systems boil everything down to reaction time. Turn based lets you relax, breathe, and make decisions. Real time is a reflex test, and if your reflexes aren't good enough, you fail. And then people laugh at you for sucking at games.

Don't make me go on a rant about how many games that build themselves up as being "skill based" are really just reflex based, there are so many examples out there I could point out.

Also, note that turn-based systems are generally well received when they are well executed. There are still tons of fantastic turn based games out there, or more coming out. Bravely Default is using turn based, and is apparently fantastic (I'll be playing the demo later). XCOM: Enemy Unknown and Fire Emblem Awakening make good use of turn-based systems, and Awakening is definitely an RPG. Persona 4 Golden and Shin Megami Tensei IV both used turn-based systems, and have been received incredibly well. And these are just high-profile titles released over the last year.

Torment: Tides Of Numenera, the spiritual successor to the beloved CRPG Planescape: Torment, recently had a poll if players would prefer a real time combat system or turn-based. It was close, but turn-based won out, despite the original game being real time with pause. Not only does turn-based combat clearly still have a place, I think this scenario shows that gamers who care about authenticity in RPGs want it to have a bigger presence.

To me, a game isn't exactly an RPG without turn-based combat. Not saying the action sub genre is less legitimate, but it gets away from the spirit of what Role Playing Games fundamentally are and rarely works well for a party of characters. The only real time system with a party I appreciated was FFXII, because I still have complete control over everything my party does while still being in real time. Every other game destroys the ability to have an adventuring party, leaving you with, at best, sub-optimal AI (although I hear Xenoblade pulled it off and White Knight Chronicles was decent).

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Originally Posted by Del Murder

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Originally Posted by shion

I miss turn based. I think X-2 did it really well. I would consider that the ideal. VIII did a good job also, the battles didn't drag on. IX is my favorite but I admit that the turn based system wasn't the greatest. The battles, especially early on, were quite slow and sluggish.

Anyways, I think if its done properly I love the turn based and I would like to see more games with that style.

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Yes, turned-based combat was done really well in FFX-2. It blended tactics and decision making with fast-paced action. XIII wasn't turned based at all, though it tried to pretend it was. It was more of a 'combat flow' management system than a turn-based system.

I miss turned-based games on consoles and I'd love to see a major release in the future. However, there have been plenty of great turned-based games released for handhelds over the last several years. I can't wait to play Bravely Default as I hear it's a great return to turned-based combat. :ffvisexy:

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It was as turn based as any ATB game is, just with shorter ATB cycles and the ability to stack several turns. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...plecolbert.png