The Beginning of the End

Okay, originally I was going to make this thread before news hit about SE taking a double take with Bravery Default's success in the West because I feel it largely undermines the topic and made it a moot point, but what the hell, I'm smurfing bored so let's do this.

Basically, with both of SE's next two big titles everyone is getting all hot bothered for both being Action-RPGs, and considering that there has been a vocal group of fans who have wished for the series to jump to this genre instead of that old stale turn based shenanigans, and considering even series battle designer Hiroyuki Ito has said this move was kind of inevitable in his mind. Do you think the success of FFXV and KHIII, two Action-RPGs might spell the end of turn based gameplay in the mainline series?

Granted new evidence has thrown this for a loop but considering how often SE misinterprets fan feedback and just looks at sales figures and trending data, it is still possible this could happen. That Turn Based games will be relegated to smaller titles like Bravery Default while FFXVI and beyond go Action RPG with A.I. partners like KH. Type-0 is an Action-RPG and since X-2 the series has been doing everything in it's power to speed up ATB to the point it devolved more into twitch play than actual strategy. So thoughts, shared feelings, baseless accusations?

I doubt it. Turn based RPGs haven't died in the West entirely, proven by Bravely Default's success and Kingdom Hearts has always been an Action-RPG and hasn't done much to hinder turn base RPGs in FF. XV success might prevent them from doing turn based in the main series if they think that's why the last games didn't sell as well. But I'm not sure it'd be permanent.

I second what ToriJ said. XV is made by the KH team and was also always intended as an ARPG, so yeah, there's no telling what direction XVI will go.

I enjoy turn-based RPGs, especially for Final Fantasy. If it chooses to go the action route, I will be disappointed, as I feel like it is a staple battle platform for these games.

They stopped making 2D Final Fantasy games too, so... :monster:

But gameplay and visuals are completely different in that regard. Visuals are more prone to change, while core gameplay elements usually remain intact for a series, lest it become unrecognizable.

I wouldn't be too concerned if they did phase out turn-based combat. It had its golden age, sure, but as long as the gameplay is satisfactory it doesn't bother me either way. Just make good games and you'll have my support.

As I said, the success of Bravery Default as well as SE's original hesitation to make Versus XIII and actual numbered entry initially probably means this won't come to pass. Though I would love to see a return to a more manageable version of ATB, I'm not sure if that is likely going to happen but stranger things have happened in the franchise.

I dunno. I'm with you on them misinterpreting things. Since this game will sell well, and probably be loved a lot more than XIII, I can see this still being a threat. Without them comparing it to Bravely Default, they would almost certainly draw this conclusion. And since Bravely Default is a handheld title, they may even see no reason to compare these two. Lots of things survive better on handheld platforms. They don't want to make console tactical games anymore for example. They may decide to not make console turn-based games anymore. It's completely within the realm of possibility. Especially with their inept abilities to draw correlations and make decisions based on bad statistical interpretations

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Originally Posted by Vyk

I dunno. I'm with you on them misinterpreting things. Since this game will sell well, and probably be loved a lot more than XIII, I can see this still being a threat. Without them comparing it to Bravely Default, they would almost certainly draw this conclusion. And since Bravely Default is a handheld title, they may even see no reason to compare these two. Lots of things survive better on handheld platforms. They don't want to make console tactical games anymore for example. They may decide to not make console turn-based games anymore. It's completely within the realm of possibility. Especially with their inept abilities to draw correlations and make decisions based on bad statistical interpretations

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They have already compared full console titles to the handheld Bravely Default, however. Specifically, they mentioned Hitman, and the negative reactions to the "aim for mainstream" changes they made to it.

I'm not saying that they're not going to misinterpret fan response (or, more likely, misjudge how to apply it), but I don't think "oh, it's a handheld, so it's not a valid comparison to full console games" is going to be a problem.

Yeah. I'll admit, I did not read that article. I didn't want to end up producing false hopes. Every time it looked like they were going to "wake up" in the past, it never seemed to go anywhere good. I didn't want to mislead myself into thinking anything unwarranted by reading something that seemed so positive, and end up being disappointed in the future. I won't say I expect the worst from them so that I won't get disappointed. But I certainly refuse to get my hopes up until they start showing real motive to move in a positive direction. So while one person may have put their thinking cap on in that company (granted, a prominent figure, certainly) it doesn't necessarily mean the company as a whole is going to be thinking clearly. Or even if they begin to, I won't hold my breath that they mean to continue to think clearly. Not for a while anyway. Much like with SEGA, being a loyal and loving fan has done nothing but get me burned and disappointed and I don't want to set myself up again for that just yet. So I'll just wait and see. Apologies if I seem to be a bit overly blindly negative

That article demonstrated one thing: That the company sees definite financial benefit in making niche titles. Square, like many game developers, have been creating more and more titles that spin towards the idea that the core gaming audience is the only gaming audience, and that the only real financial gain to be made is to appeal to that audience. For this reason, indie devs (and ATLUS) have been the only ones appealing to some of the more niche audiences.

The problem is, a game tuned for a mainstream audience has much more competition, and is facing ingrained series that deliver that style of experience incredibly well. So the chances of such games succeeding are very small. On the other hand, niche titles have far less competition, and can be made and tuned to excel in their niche. This is what Bravely Default did near flawlessly, and Square seems to have finally realized the potential market there. There is an underserved audience clearly willing to shell out money for products that fit the criteria they enjoy.

Does that mean that Square games are suddenly going to reach the heights of their glory days? Certainly not. As has been pointed out, even realizing that core truth of the business, there is a lot of potential to screw things up. They could misunderstand the audience desires. They could produce something overly niche in a ridiculous overcompensation. Those are just a couple of the more obvious problems that could arise. But there is some potential for growth, innovation, and the ability to stray outside the mainstream that the company acknowledges. And, more importantly, that the company sees money in. That is really all you can take from the article. What effect that will have on the company and games remain to be seen.

I hope that Square Enix use this as a sign that they can dare to try something new without risking it all. I wouldn't mind if they shot for smaller titles until they found something that worked. Handhelds are a great place to test the waters.

Obviously there's a big difference in the way fans perceive the games based on their biases. I hope they don't think that there is simply one market they have to try and impress.

>>> I never liked ATB, real time battles are nice if they are done right, like Star Ocean.
Im just happy with the old turn based stuff..:luca:

About SE, I dont care what they do. They are always releasing lot of games and is not like I gonna play all of them. Something good will come out eventually (like always).