One for all, all for one?

Recently I have been looking to find a better job than what I currently have. I have been with this company for three years, two as a temporary and one full time, and I have seen no raises go to anyone who deserves it. There are people who have been here 20 years and are not at the top out pay because they always refuse them.

The two places I plan to apply at both pay a lot better than what I am currently making. One is a union while the other is not, though neither of them fire people, or have layoffs I'm still kinda iffy about starting over.

Have any of you worked for unions? If so what would you say the pros and cons are?

Unions in America are different from over here in how they work I suspect. Unions in the UK are effectively "smurf you, you can't fire me!" cards. Mostly because even if you're in the wrong, if the union sides with you, the bosses are really smurfed.

I remember working for Sainsbury's and as a non-union worker I was getting shat on left right, and center by management. One of the Duty managers effectively made it his mission to fire me because he didn't like that I could do a full day's work like everyone else but still find time to talk during my day. I was hauled in to yet another disciplinary for no real valid reason and had spoken to a union rep before hand. They had me sign my union papers about an hour before my disciplinary. When I walked in there with my union representative and sat down waited for the meeting to be convened then opened with "We're here for this again? Have I not proven enough times over that I do my job and that there's no problems with my work? I'm starting to feel victimized here" I'd never seen a HR manager backtrack so fast. Suddently this disciplnary turned in to a discussion about how I felt I was being victimized and what the company could do to assist me. I walked out of that meeting with a previously issued formal written warning being struck off my file because it was deemed unjust.

The cons of being in a union are however, the fact that if they declare a strike, you kinda have to go with them because otherwise you're a scab. It can get pretty hateful when they're being like that, especially if you have dependents to look after.

Ultimately however, the main point to make is not whether union is better or not better than working without one. It's a case of will you be happy doing the job you choose? I've learned that job satisfaction leads to job security because you're more motivated to do well.

Union membership should be mandatory in essentially any workplace. Only exceptions I can think of are elected roles, because they're a sui generis where unions couldn't function.

Nope, I've never worked in a union.

I dunno how well a farmers union would work

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Originally Posted by Steve

The cons of being in a union are however, the fact that if they declare a strike, you kinda have to go with them because otherwise you're a scab. It can get pretty hateful when they're being like that, especially if you have dependents to look after.

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That is what I am fearful of. My fiance and I are planning to get a place to rent with two of our friends, and if they do strike I would really be left out to dry.

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Originally Posted by escobert

Nope, I've never worked in a union.

I dunno how well a farmers union would work

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I say we would all probably starve.

i'm in a union that has a no-strike clause in the contract with the state (it's a white-collar employee union). i get a lot of cushy benefits and a nice pension upon retirement. no participation required apart from paying dues which is something i'm basically blind to since it's automatically deducted from my paycheck. it's pretty nice overall.

Farmers may be another special case, actually, now that it has been mentioned. Unions do exist, and are good for the smaller farmer, to give them some defense against massive corporations and a better position negotiating with stores and whoever else buys their produce (not talking about actual individuals going and buying a sack of potatoes or whatever) but on the other hand - to what extent is that viable in the long term? Might we be better off helping small farmers get fair prices for their land and ensuring they get support to retrain or the like? Ultimately society wants absolutely vast amounts of mass produced food at the lowest possible cost, which is something the massive corporations or similar bodies are genuinely very good at. Even if part of that is on the strength of illegal immigrants.

There are other issues that make farming a bit special too. First is food security. No country much likes the idea of putting its food supply into foreign hands, although the modern world makes that pretty much inevitable, there's still a sense that being able to feed your own people (at least for a limited time) is a strategic consideration. Second, farming culture is very strong in many parts of the world, even as fewer and fewer people are actually farmers. Our species is built on the strength of twelve millennia of farming. It's only in the last two centuries that we began to change to a less farming-based society, and only in the post-war era that it really has changed. In many countries it's still the primary vocation. So we have a strong attachment in the historical and cultural sense, and many modern cultures idolize farming and the rural life to some extent; look at the American homesteader, Tolkein's idyllic Hobbits, or the French belief that the farm is a vital aspect of French culture which must be defended and preserved (which, in turn, forms a big reason for their consistent defense of the CAP). Many places are still very tied up with farming as an important economic activity, so whilst here in Leicester, UK, our farms are far away now, in Bozeman, MT you're probably not further than ten minutes from a major farm or ranch of some sort. If Leicester lost the economic benefits of its farms I don't know that it'd be a huge issue; if a small Great Plains or Mountain town in the US did, it'd probably be game over.

I'm not arguing that and of these factors should necessarily should inform decision making, but I can see why it's a sticky subject and hard to discern what the consequences of various policies might be.

I'm just not very fond of changing jobs. Yet I can not stay where there is no advancement opportunities.

I never worked for a union. Being self-employed usually means that the only one who can screw you over is yourself.

I should find a union my boss wouldn't even give me Christmas off!

Programmers don't really do unions.

Well I didn't realize they moved til today. They are way to far out of the way to be of any profit.

I seriously need something better, there is no way for us to live with what measly income we have.:(