Chrono Trigger Timeline and Squares attempts to stop a time paradox from happening.

Well, i dont know if this board has a topic like this or not..im not going to sift through 10 pages to find it (sorry, dont have the time, and i didnt see a search function on that board). Now, what makes this series so interesting to me is the aspect of time/space travel. More specifically, how the hell these timelines can still exist without creating time paradoxes which leads to a serious problem.

Of course, the initial time paradox most think about is the one that is created in 1999. The defeat of lavos creates a whole new timeline, which brings a peaceful and life filled world in the year 2300, contrary to the 2300 that was left in ruin. Of course, if Crono and Co. cannot notice the future in ruin, they arent going to save it, which leads to a time paradox.

Now, how can square avoid this? On one timeline alone, its impossible to avoid this, however, on two, with one acting as a fall back, it is. It was said in Chrono Cross that there were multiple timelines in time/space that fell to the hands of lavos. (chronopolis, researcher)...however, the one that they were on was one of the few, if not the only one, that was saved from lavos' wrath. Not only this, the entire game is based on skipping from one world, or timeline, to another, meaning that one can actually travel to a whole differnet timeline. At this point, one can infer that there was one timeline that was used as a fallback during the CT travels in order to save that one timeline from the wrath of lavos.

...well, its a start..and still only a theory. but i would love to hear what the rest of you have for your theories.

It's always headache inducing trying to sort this out, and my knowledge of CC is nowhere near as good as my knowledge of CT, but here goes...

In 65,000,000 BC, during the war between the apes and the reptites, Lavos falls to the earth. Lavos somehow infects the apes and they start to evolve into what we know now as humans, but with the gift of magic as well. The apes/humans defeat the reptites and become the reigning species upon the planet.

In 12,000 BC, Queen Zeal and the three Guru's, along with Schala Zeal, use the Mammon Machine to create a link to Lavos. It all goes scatty with the Guru's being scattered throughout time, along with Schala's little brother, Janus.

In 600 AD, a man called Magus attempts to summon the legendary immortal Lavos but he is killed in the process by a lone warrior called Frog.

In 1000 AD, a young woman going by the name of Marle is sucked into a time-gate and sent back in time to 600 AD.

(NOTE: This is of course when CT begins, but we'll ignore that for now...)

In 1999 AD, Lavos rises through the planets crust and reigns down fire upon its denizens, killing almost all of them.

In 2300 AD, the human species finally dies out.

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This is the original time-line right? Now, this is where it gets confusing... we all know that when Marle was sucked back in time, Crono and Lucca followed her and eventually they end up in 2300 AD when they discover the advent of Lavos.

The important thing to think about here is how time itself works... if I travelled back two years ago and hacked EoFF, permanently removing it from the internet, the rest of time INSTANTLY changes. I'd not know what I've done since I would have no concept of what EoFF is. Since there is no EoFF, I wouldn't have travelled back in time two years, so I'd STILL be in the present, BUT if I didn't travel back in time, I wouldn't have hacked EoFF, and thus I would know what it is and BOOM! My head explodes.

That's what should have happened. Let me explain...

When Crono and co. see the video in 2300 AD, they go and change time. So, now Lavos is dead right? This means that when they travel forwards to 2300 AD, there is no video of Lavos rising, thus they do NOT defeat Lavos, thus Lavos does rise, thus they do see the video, thus they defeat Lavos, thus they do not see the video, thus they do not defeat Lavos, thus Lavos does rise, thus they do see the video, thus they defeat Lavos... ad infinitum. It's simple; you CANNOT change time.

The events of CC are immaterial. It doesn't matter that the Time Devourer is created and defeated, that just happens. So, what about Schala resetting time I hear you say? Well, let's see how that works...

So, CT happens and Lavos is defeated, thus CC happens. Schala resets it so Lavos is not defeated, thus Crono and co. see the video in 2300 AD, thus they defeat Lavos, thus CC happens again, thus time is reset again, thus Crono and co. see the video in 2300 AD, thus they defeat Lavos... ad infinitum.

Doesn't work still, does it?

I'll leave it there since my brain is melting out through my ear...

It's a fun game. Just play dumb.

~MJE~

Quote:

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Originally posted by Purgatory


That's what should have happened. Let me explain...

When Crono and co. see the video in 2300 AD, they go and change time. So, now Lavos is dead right? This means that when they travel forwards to 2300 AD, there is no video of Lavos rising, thus they do NOT defeat Lavos, thus Lavos does rise, thus they do see the video, thus they defeat Lavos, thus they do not see the video, thus they do not defeat Lavos, thus Lavos does rise, thus they do see the video, thus they defeat Lavos... ad infinitum. It's simple; you CANNOT change time.

The events of CC are immaterial. It doesn't matter that the Time Devourer is created and defeated, that just happens. So, what about Schala resetting time I hear you say? Well, let's see how that works...

So, CT happens and Lavos is defeated, thus CC happens. Schala resets it so Lavos is not defeated, thus Crono and co. see the video in 2300 AD, thus they defeat Lavos, thus CC happens again, thus time is reset again, thus Crono and co. see the video in 2300 AD, thus they defeat Lavos... ad infinitum.

Doesn't work still, does it?

I'll leave it there since my brain is melting out through my ear...

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thats exactly what im saying. it doesnt work, which creates a paradox..but the concept of multiple timelines jointed with the ability to travel both space and time can help keep one timeline in defeat, while the other in peace.

Basically, what i am saying is instead of just going forward in time, they could also skip a timeline. It was said in chronopolis that there are multiple timelines, and the one that they lived in was possibly the only one that was saved from lavos. Now, its possible that in order to keep the paradox from happening, Crono and Co. may have actually jumped both time and space to enter a different timeline where 2300 ad is still in ruin. Of course, this is only a theory and cannot be proven yet...but its one explanation thats a little easier on the brain then considering a time paradox.

Square needs quite a bit to be able to fix what has been done with CT..and it still needs to approach that question with an explanation that is incredibly air tight.

If it's a paradox that just keeps repeating itself I guess we'll just have to keep playing to beat Lavos over and over again. :D

And on the time paradox note, if the events keep repeating themselves, would one live forever in the loop?

.....

well, im guessing you didnt read what this was about..

its about a solution to the very obvious problem in the CT storyline that just wasnt clearly solved. so, why not suggest what you think may have logically happened.

Play Radical Dreamers, maybe it solves something, but i doubt it.

This is the thing, there has been a lot of argument about the possible third game in the series on two points: a) is it really going to happen? and b) what is it actually called?

See, a lot of people claim that it's called Chrono Break, and a lot say that it's called Chrono Brake. The difference there is a very MAJOR one really...

Break suggest breaking out of a time loop, Brake suggests stopping time, full stop... but then, it may never happen =P

EDIT: The entire premise of Radical Dreamers is that it's based on the CT world, BUT it is set in multiple dimensions. There are seven chapters, all of which are somewhat the same and yet somewhat different. They all happen concurrently yet none of them affects the other since they are in DIFFERENT dimensions. None of them are in the CC dimension...

well, actually, radical dreamers was regarded as another one of those timelines in CC. in fact, you could actually get some quotes from RD in Chronopolis. I will just play it just for kicks, but i really wonder if that will show in the CT timeline.

*EDIT*, but im willing to bet that the CC universe/timeline is the actual timeline, considering that was the one that was actually sent over here. in either case, it is as i and you said..its a different timeline..or dimension...(timeline, since thats what chronopolis calls it)

My own personal theory is that conciousness would be immune to the effects of time travel - you'd remember the new timeline as well as the old one you destroyed. But that's just my pet theory.

On to a real one, the Quantuum branching theory of time (I can't remember it's actual name, but that name is pretty descriptive of what it is) clears up every single paradox problem; however, it does create one. Under this theory of time, it doesn't matter how complex and impossible a paradox sounds, it's doable. The idea is that whenever there is a quantuum possibility, the universe splits into two universes where each possibility is played out. So, they get thrown into the future of their timeline and see the world destroyed. Through all their meddling in the past, they've made new splits in the universe and through that made a new future without Lavos destroying the world. And since they're technically from another universe, rather than the new, saved universe, they still have full memory of the desolate future.

I personally don't like this theory, but it is an actual theory; and several times during Chrono Cross it looks to me like they're alluding to it, so I think it may be the one they use for how time works in their world. The one problem it does create, though, is that under this theory Marle wouldn't have disappeared when Leene was never found.

the paradox you guys are discussing is called the Grandmother theory/paradox... it has lots of different names. And the whole time branching thing is almost a reality. You have to think, every single fraction of somethingsmaller than the time elapsed from a humming birds on flap of a wing. An infinetly small fraction of time, would branch an infinite ammount of times assuming everything is possible, which everything IS possible just unlikely. Lets work in Milliseconds for this. For the ONE millisecond of time elapsed a humming birds wing moves, there is a possibility of ANYTHING to occure because of that one movement, buildings could collapse, a person could die, because everything is linked by time. This means that if that happens, an infinate ammount of branches would be branched. if it DIDNT happen than another infinite ammount of branches would be branched.

What I'm trying to say is, since the beginning of time, which is forever, theres gonna be more than a number imaginable of possibilities and its never gonna end since its infinate. Wow, infinate is used a lot here. Anyway, branching of time makes CT possible, I think... Just think of it as a huge shirt, and time branches are the threads and keep going and going.

isnt one of the dimensions artificially created by FATE? thats what i thought it said while in Chronopolis...could be wrong though

I didn't think there was that much to Radical Dreamers... I mean, all that happened was (SPOILER)Serge, Kid, and Magil(of whom I'm sure is Magus) go into Viper manor, do some junk, find Lynx underground in the ruins of Zeal, kill him, and get the Frozen Flame, right? Or did I just mess up somewhere?

nice theory's
you forgot one thing though...

While Chrono & co where changing time they didn't get infected by the changes(example, Robo wasn't erased out of time because his future changed)

Why? Because they where traveling through time itself. That's why they don't get efected and that's why the time paradox doesn't occur in this case!

Didn't you people ever see back the the future part 2? It explains it all because the same thing happens pretty much.

Crono and Co go to the future and find out Lavos is gonna lay waste to the planet. So they get their trout together and take him the :skull::skull::skull::skull: out!

Now, While they did defeat lavos it changed the course of history but it didn't wipeout the time line where they saw everything from the future. The time line just branched off into a new and now there are 2 time lines with a equal past and what not.

Now Serge and Co come into play. With the new future being altered and that experiment of time travel in chronopolis happening...that place got sent back in time and FATE studied and controlled everything...blah blah blah Lavos is still alive but exists inbetween dimensions...blah blah blah you have to prevent him from devouring both time lines....blah blah blah you meld the 2 timelines back into one(probably the original where lavos destorys the planet)

The cycle continues...and now we must break this crazy-ass cycle in Chrono Break(yeah you saw it coming mother :skull::skull::skull::skull:ers)