Time travel and the R=U theories (MASSIVE FRICKEN SPOILER WARNING)

Ok, I thought of some stuff that may fall into the theory that Rinoa eventually becomes Ulitmecia.

1. When Ultimecia posesses Rinoa at the end of disc 2 which leads to Squall and Rinoa going to the space station and then freeing Adel. What I beleive happened was the Ultimecia possesed Rinoas body and then she then lets go of Rinoa and possesses Adel, which would hereby releve Rinoa of her Sorceress powers henceforth not being a sorceress anymore

2. Rinoa witnesses Squall kill Ultimecia at the end of the game, if Ultimecia wen't through all of that trouble to plan to possess people and try to take of there world with here powers then if she were Rinoa then she definetly wouldn't make the same mistakes twice and remebering all of the stuff that Squall and his friends did to thwart her plans then hereby not failing in her plans.

If Ellone would happen to be Raines daughter then I can add more to this theory but untill then I can most likely say that Sorceress Ultimecia is in some relations with Ellone, Raine or most likely is Ellone herself.

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Originally posted by Joel
Ok, I thought of some stuff that may fall into the theory that Rinoa eventually becomes Ulitmecia.

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You KNOW the letters R=U are like honey to brears to me.

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1. When Ultimecia posesses Rinoa at the end of disc 2 which leads to Squall and Rinoa going to the space station and then freeing Adel. What I beleive happened was the Ultimecia possesed Rinoas body and then she then lets go of Rinoa and possesses Adel, which would hereby releve Rinoa of her Sorceress powers henceforth not being a sorceress anymore

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Unlikely, Rinoa still uses angel wings, which is the use fo her Sorceress powers. (she got them after she drained Edea) Edea talks to her a lot about how she has to be careful now that she's a sorceress. The Estharans want to lock her up for being a sorceress. Rinoa is still a sorceress.

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2. Rinoa witnesses Squall kill Ultimecia at the end of the game, if Ultimecia wen't through all of that trouble to plan to possess people and try to take of there world with here powers then if she were Rinoa then she definetly wouldn't make the same mistakes twice and remebering all of the stuff that Squall and his friends did to thwart her plans then hereby not failing in her plans.

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Griever = Guardian Force = Memory loss. All tha Ultimecia knows is what's in the history books. That they are the 'fated children destined to fight her' She doesnt even remember she was one of them.

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If Ellone would happen to be Raines daughter then I can add more to this theory but untill then I can most likely say that Sorceress Ultimecia is in some relations with Ellone, Raine or most likely is Ellone herself.

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There IS a relation. Ultimecia used the JDE, which imitates Ellone's brainpaterns to go to the past (our present, and then used Ellone to go all the way back so she could compress time. Also, Ellone is not Raine's daughter. Her parents died before Laguna arrived. Laguna talks to their picture in the beginning of disc 2. "Ellone's been a very good girl today."

For some reason I keep thinking that Ellone grows up to Ultimecia, I beleive that Ellone might be doing all of this time travel just to attempt to change the past. She does it with Squall and his friends to try and help Laguna and his friends out but then I thought that maybe Ellone might be upset with the way the past is so she uses her powers to try and fix them but her time travel powers were used so much that they possible made her go crazy.

There's even less evidence to support an E=U theory than there is an R=U, but it is possible. I doubt it though. I don't see why her powers would make her go insane, because doesnt she need to use someone else to do it? I mean, she sends Squall and the others back... it doesnt seem to be a strain on her body or mind, more on theirs.

Well get this, she's the only one in the story who can use the power to posess somebodys spirit that she knows and travel back in time to see if she can change the past, Im guessing her powers seemed to grow over time so she would just need to look into the past and instantly posess somebody. This is just my theory.

I believe it states in the game, however, that Ultimecia is using a machine invented by Doctor Odine which imitates Ellone's powers. It was a device he was developing when he studied Ellone as a child. Odine explains that the reason Ultimecia was going after Ellone was becuase the machine had limits as to how far back it could send someone's consciousness, and Ulty wanted to go further back. She needed to possess the actual Ellone to do so. Therefore, if Ellone was Ulty, why would she need a machine which imitates powers she already posesses? And why would she be restrained by a machine which isn't as powerful as her natural gifts? It kind of disproves the whole "Ellone is Ulty because they have similar powers" theory too, becuase Ulty is getting them unnaturally. Therefore, I'd have to say its very doubtful E=U.

However, its interesting that you bring up that connection, since I thought of writing a fanfic when I was younger which had Ulty as a descendant of Ellone, and a native of Esthar. Wierd. :p

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Originally posted by Rand Al'Tor
Griever = Guardian Force = Memory loss. All tha Ultimecia knows is what's in the history books. That they are the 'fated children destined to fight her' She doesnt even remember she was one of them.

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Actually, I don't think Rinoa is one of the 'fated children' whatsoever. She didn't grow up in the orphanage with everyone else, nor does she ever take the part of either Laguna, Ward or Kiros in the dream sequences. In my eyes, the only reason she features in the plot is because she's a sorceress. I mean, hell, what does Rinoa actually do to help their cause? She's the one who instigates the trouble, not the successes... but mweh, it's just a game =P

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Originally posted by Joel
Well get this, she's the only one in the story who can use the power to posess somebodys spirit that she knows and travel back in time to see if she can change the past, Im guessing her powers seemed to grow over time so she would just need to look into the past and instantly posess somebody. This is just my theory.

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Like Shiva said, there was Junction Machine Ellone. IT does say that that is what Ultemecia used to send her consiousness back and possess sorceresses of the past (Edea, Adel, Rinoa)

There is also another good piece of evidence to look out for which supports the rinultimecia theory (my name for Rinoa-Ultimecia ^_^)
When you fight Griever at the end.... look closely at his explosion once you beat him, before Ultemecia junctions herself to him. You'll notice that when he explodes, white feathers float about the place. Hard to see, yes, but look, they are there.
And I believe we all know which character in the game is associated with white feathers.

Now, hold on, i was thinking about the E=U theory. and i see how you can disprove it with the fact that she uses the JDE, but what if, with her memory loss, she also lost her powers? i am not going to fully support this theory, but it could make sense.....

Sure, it's possible, but why would she lose that power, and why only that power? The memory loss is an easy one of course, but power loss isnt. However, that theory does make the link possible...

Yeah, but the basis for E=U was that they used the same powers. If you then claim that the theory could work because maybe she lost her powers and they no longer shared abilities.... what's the point?

R=U is the only theory about Ultimecia that I've seen make any kind of sense.

Joel
QUOTE]2. Rinoa witnesses Squall kill Ultimecia at the end of the game, if Ultimecia wen't through all of that trouble to plan to possess people and try to take of there world with here powers then if she were Rinoa then she definetly wouldn't make the same mistakes twice and remebering all of the stuff that Squall and his friends did to thwart her plans then hereby not failing in her plans.[/QUOTE]

Fate is a huge element of the game. Even if she DID remember then she wouldn't be able to change anything because then she wouldn't see herself do it in the past and so couldn't change it.
Time travel is fairly shaky in VIII but I'm pretty sure the cycle of Sorceresses confirms that at least that version of time travel and cause and effect holds true.

Okay, at the end of the game, Squall witnesses Edea accepting Ultimecia's powers. So Edea has Ultimecia's powers. Later, Edea becomes posessed by Ultimecia(which is in the future, but Edea still has her powers) and then the future Ultimecia posesses Rinoa (which never actually accepts Ultimecia's powers) but Edea is posessed no more (is she still a sorceress?) . Um, I just don't get it.

Ultimecia can possess any sorceress and Edea lost her powers when she got beat up in disk(2 or 3??) and gave them to rinoa and thats how rinoa became a sorceress and how ultimecia can possess her...

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Originally posted by Aerio
Ultimecia can possess any sorceress and Edea lost her powers when she got beat up in disk(2 or 3??) and gave them to rinoa and thats how rinoa became a sorceress and how ultimecia can possess her...

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Actually. Edea was still a sorceress. Her powers (back from when she was 5) were received from the sorceress before Adel, if memory serves me right. Ultimecia possessed her to do her bidding when she was a grown woman. Which was (SPOILER)AFTER Squall and co. defeated Ulti at the end, but chronologically before anything in FF8 happened

but in the game edea goes to see Dr. Odine to get her powers sealed and he tells her she lost them to someone else...and then they figure out that they passed em to Rinoa...im probably wrong though :P