Tonight's US Presidential Debate

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10-09-2004, 04:32 AM
Queen Anthai

Tonight's US Presidential Debate

So who do you think won? Thoughts on the debate, anyone? I posted on my DeadJournal for the first 45 minutes of the debate, so I'm just gonna copy/paste it here...
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"You have to be consistent to be President."
-George W. Bush

"Consistency is the defense of a small mind."
-David Eddings

I find it funny that Bush is beginning to paraphrase Cheney's words from the Vice-Presidential debate last Tuesday. Goes to show you who's really running the country.

Found out it was 104 degrees today in Baghdad. I'm debating spending a lot of unnecessary money to get Ben one of those portable misting fans or neck cooling gel pack...things.

As I'm watching Bush lose his temper - and Jesus Christ, laughing at Kerry's rebuttals!? - it almost looks like he wants to go kick Kerry's ass. Or make his Daddy do it.

I can't wait to vote.

The lighting at this debate is horrible. It's making Kerry look like he's carrying designer bags under his eyes.

If Bush laughs or snickers at Kerry one more time, I hope the moderator calls him on it. I mean, come on. Unprofessional, boorish, juvenile and bottom line, he's being a dick.

You know where both of them are going wrong? They think they can solve the situation in Iraq during their administrations. The problem is that peace in the Middle East is not going to happen during the next administration. Or the next one. I will be shocked if it happens in my lifetime. I think Kerry can make better choices towards making it less chaotic in Iraq, which is part of why I'm voting for him.

Bush has to quit looking indignant. He looks like a petulant, whining child who's two seconds from a kicking, screaming temper tantrum. How can anyone want to vote for a guy who can't deal with criticism? Cracks under pressure like *snap* that!

"I've made some decisions on Israel that's unpopular." -GWB
It's called proper grammar, jackass.

Kerry is nailing Bush's ass to the wall on how he said he'd handle going to war (i.e. "with a viable exit strategy").

Bush is now responding and yelling without even waiting for a prompt from the moderator. Impatient, jumps the gun, rude...hm. Sounds like how he went to war.

Ooh. Someone's bringing up Iran. Go, girl. Let's hear what Kerry has to say.

Looks like he's attacking Bush for being distracted in Iraq, which has no WMD's. He's now bringing up North Korea. Kerry oughtn't blame that fully on Bush, though, as almost the last 100 years of presidents have stalemated against North Korea, since they've got Seoul and the rest of South Korea as a nice, country-sized hostage.

Kerry is saying he's going to crack down on nuclear proliferation, specifying North Korea and Iran.

"That answer almost made me want to scowl." -GWB

Pause. Wait for laugh.

Ha. Not even crickets.

"I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." -GWB

"Internets"? There's more than one?

I hate this guy.

He says we're not going to reinstate a draft. Well, duh. NOBODY'S going to reinstate the draft. There'd be rioting in the streets, not to mention en masse relocations to Canada. I think Jay got it right. :)

Ooooooooh......Bush is TOTALLY cutting in to the moderator. He's interrupting, being rude, yelling and getting red-faced...it's pissing me off and I'm not even there.

Basically he's insisting that we have a "grand coalition" of allies with us in the Iraqi War. (Does it even have an official name yet? Gulf War II?) But Kerry says that if Missouri was a country, and it joined us in the war, it would only be the third larget army in Iraq, behind Great Britain and the U.S.

Read an interesting viewpoint in the Sun-Times today. It was opined that pulling out of Iraq is really the best option we have. They didn't want to pull out of Vietnam either, but eventually we had to. And we lost face, true. But not for long. We are still a huge superpower in the world. America wasn't weakened by a withdrawal from Vietnam. We survived. We don't have to "win" this war. It's a Bush war anyway. We're in the wrong country. How about Iran? How about moving more of our forces to Afghanistan and getting bin Laden - you know, the guy who attacked us?

"If a drug comes from Canada, we gotta make sure it doesn't come from a Third World." -GWB
Alien drugs? Cool. :)
Also, nice secondary implication. Canadians are probably more advanced than we are, except for the whole hockey and syrup thing. :)

Kerry nailed Bush again for the problem of the debt. He says Clinton not only balanced the budget, he paid down the debt of the nation. In less than four years, Bush has gotten us into a debt that is greater than it ever was, from Washington to Clinton combined.

Awww, Bush is upset because Kerry's going to give the middle-class a tax cut and tax the rich. Poor baby. If you want to piss off a Republican, threaten his wallet. Works every time. :)

I'm going to quit blogging on this for the moment. A great, unbiased (unlike me) view is at http://www.peterdavid.net
10-09-2004, 06:14 AM
Big D

I only saw the last twenty minutes of the debate, but Bush's performance was deeply unimpressive, particularly in several key areas:

1) On the topic of Supreme Court appointments:
Bush said he'd prefer to appoint conservative judges, who'll interpret and apply the law as it is written. He said it's the legislature's job to write law, and the judiciary's job to interpret and apply it.
Judges don't make law, he said. This is completely untrue; the US is a common-law country where judges do indeed create law. President Bush doesn't understand a fundamental aspect of his nation's judiciary.

2) On the topic of abortion:
The grisly issue of partial-birth abortions was brought up, with Bush saying several times that Kerry had voted in favour of it. Kerry responded that he was in favour of the practice if, and only if, it was essential to saving a mother's life in a medical emergency. Bush ignored this, saying that you're either for it or against it, there's no middle ground. He completely avoided the fact that different situations have different circumstances; you can't view the world in black and white.

Similarly, Bush attacked Kerry's support for refusing parental notification of teen abortions. Again, he failed to address Kerry's suggestion of a case-by-case response. Kerry gave the example of a 17-year-old who falls pregnant after being raped by her father. Should she have to tell her father she had an abortion? Bush completely disregarded this again. It seems the president believes every issue must be completely one way or the other, with no provision for special circumstances.

3) The final question posed in the debate:
Bush was asked to identify three mistakes he had made whilst president, and how he had solved those problems. Bush didn't even begin to answer this question, he just launched right into saying "we were right to invade Iraq because Saddam doesn't like America and he might've wanted to attack us in the future".
There are two parts to the question that was asked; Bush glossed over the first part, and didn't even acknowledge the second part. Extremely disappointing, and quite revealing, that Bush doesn't believe he's made any mistakes during his time in power, except, as he said, appointing a few wrong people into jobs that aren't really that important.

Bush spent more of his time making sensationalist attacks against Kerry, based on severe twisting of his opponent's words and actions - as in the abortion issue mentioned above. He also demonstrated ignorance of a basic principle of the legal system, and suggested that he is incapable of taking responsibility for his actions.
10-09-2004, 06:27 AM
DMKA

There was a debate last night!?!? Dammit!

Anyone know when the next one is?
10-09-2004, 06:46 AM
The Captain

The final debate will be in Arizona next Wednesday, October 13. All the major cable news channels are re-airing this current debate between 1 and 2am EST.

Debate Two has only strengthened my belief that Kerry will be our next President. While he was not quite as sharp as Debate One, it was still more than enough to once again come out on top.

A telling moment happened a few moments after the debate when on CBS news, a Republican, who'd been supporting Bush right until the last Debate made the following statement: "Bush sticks to his guns and that's why I've been behind him, but it seems his guns are pointed in the wrong direction now."

I was thinking of writing more about how this Debate made me feel, but at the moment I'm still trying to put my thoughts together. Hopefully in a little while, I'll be able to process and sort out what was said and comment accordingly.

All I will say at the moment is that America is in more danger than we know when a place known as "Spin Alley" has become a focal point in politics.

There are more than a few reasons to go out and vote this coming election, be you American or any Nationality in whatever elections are coming or have already come. If not for just the satisfaction in excerxing your right to vote, you're also taking a first step toward getting your voice heard. The only way this world will listen, and the people in charge will get the hint is if we make it known what we feel and where we believe this world should be heading. If you think your vote won't matter in the grand scheme of things, I really am scared of where the future may take us. We NEED to have the voices crying out, people, not politicians, not spinsters, not attack dogs, PEOPLE are what this world is made up of and we must never allow the voice of the people to disappear. So get out there and get your voice heard. Someday, somehow, someway soon, it'll be heard loud and clear.

Take care all.
10-09-2004, 09:41 AM
Skogs

Kerry seemed more in control, more statesmanlike, more like someone you'd want in charge of the most powerful country in the world.
10-09-2004, 07:59 PM
edczxcvbnm

I thought the first have of the debate was a laugh riot. Bush was visibly pissed. In case you didn't notice he was blinking about once every two seconds. His answers made no sense and I was laughing my ass off.

When he started to talk back to the moderator I was hoping they would cut his mic and then explain the rules to Mr. Bush and that he has to follow them. It makes me wonder why there is a moderator if he doesn't do anything when something like this happens.

I say Kerry won but barely this time. I think next time he will win again on domestic issues and hopefully win the election. But I am still waiting for that October surprise of them catching Osama and completely turning the vote towards Bush.
10-09-2004, 08:55 PM
MartyM

Disclaimer: I don't really care who wins the election since I believe both men are unfit for the job.

That said, aside from a few Bush-isms, I think Bush smoked Kerry.

Allow me to counterpoint a few of the views posted here (don't take this personally - I'm responding to the issues)

Quote:

"You have to be consistent to be President."
-George W. Bush

"Consistency is the defense of a small mind."
-David Eddings

Puh-leease. You can find some philosopher who said anything you want to back up your position. This argument against Bush is thus bunk. Do people really want an INconsistent president in office? I honestly have no IDEA what Kerry stands for, because I've heard him say different things at different (recent!) times about every issue I care about.

Quote:

As I'm watching Bush lose his temper - and Jesus Christ, laughing at Kerry's rebuttals!? - it almost looks like he wants to go kick Kerry's ass.

That would have been HILARIOUS.

Quote:

"I hear there's rumors on the Internets that we're going to have a draft." -GWB

Definite Bush-ism there. Too bad the guy doesn't have his grammar down. I don't think that makes him unfit to lead, but it's a strike against his wit and thinking-on-his-feet abilities. Fortunately a president does not need to think on his feet - he always has time and advice before making crucial decisions.

Quote:

You know where both of them are going wrong? They think they can solve the situation in Iraq during their administrations. The problem is that peace in the Middle East is not going to happen during the next administration. Or the next one. I will be shocked if it happens in my lifetime.

Agree totally.

Quote:

I think Kerry can make better choices towards making it less chaotic in Iraq, which is part of why I'm voting for him

I think Kerry's plan is laughable - hold a summit. Bush's response was great - "What are you going to say to them? Come join us in our Grand Diversion? Come join us in the Wrong War, at the Wrong Place at the Wrong Time?" Also, Kerry wants us to train their troops/policemen faster to get us out of there as quickly as possible, yet advocates DOUBLING classroom training time for their troops/policemen, and following that up with on-site training (see johnkerry.com). That's going to take massive amounts of time and money. I haven't heard any news to indicate that we're not already training their people as fast as we can. You hear news clips saying that we've only spent a fraction of the money we have allocated for training them, but you never hear anything saying that it's reasonably POSSIBLE for us to currently be spending the money faster to move faster towards our goal.

Quote:

Basically he's insisting that we have a "grand coalition" of allies with us in the Iraqi War. (Does it even have an official name yet? Gulf War II?) But Kerry says that if Missouri was a country, and it joined us in the war, it would only be the third larget army in Iraq, behind Great Britain and the U.S.

So? A whole lot of nations don't have large militaries, numbering in the large millions, like ours. A whole lot of nations don't even have a whole lot of people. I'd like to hear what countries Kerry would like to join us. France and Germany is what I heard. How big are their armies, anyways, and how many people would they actually allocate? I'm afraid the answer is "not many."

Quote:

Read an interesting viewpoint in the Sun-Times today. It was opined that pulling out of Iraq is really the best option we have. They didn't want to pull out of Vietnam either, but eventually we had to.

Typical liberal newspaper. It's what you'd expect to see printed. This war IS different from Vietnam, though, since we've actually destroyed their previous regime, and are in the process of putting in a new one. I guess that's similar to our intent in Vietnam, except that this time, we're actually getting it done.

Quote:

Bush has to quit looking indignant. He looks like a petulant, whining child who's two seconds from a kicking, screaming temper tantrum. How can anyone want to vote for a guy who can't deal with criticism? Cracks under pressure like *snap* that!

His pissiness was definitely a strike against him, but yeah it was funny. I think he was mainly getting pissed, though, because Kerry was lying right through his teeth at him. I could understand that.

Quote:

Kerry nailed Bush again for the problem of the debt. He says Clinton not only balanced the budget, he paid down the debt of the nation. In less than four years, Bush has gotten us into a debt that is greater than it ever was, from Washington to Clinton combined.

Ahh, the good ol' budget problem. Don't people learn in school that a national deficit is actually good for the national economy?

Listen - Bush had a point when he said that he entered office 6 months into a recession. The huge economic boom brought on in Clinton's reign had nothing at all to do with Clinton, and everything to do with the dot-com industry. That's the only reason he was able to balance the budget. However, once all the hype about the dot-coms started dying down, a lot of people started losing jobs (I was a part of the dot-com industry at this time - trust me), and the recession began. Bush entered at a bad time and did what he could.

And Kerry is proposing spending 2.2 trillion dollars more than Bush! If you listened carefully, his tax relief rollback (only for those making over 200,000 per year) would only raise 89 billion. That leaves Kerry with a proposed deficit of over 1.3 trillion MORE than Bush's.

I like talking about the economy and taxation theory.

There's no WAY that Kerry is going to balance the budget, period. Don't believe him when he says he'll keep your taxes the same and only tax the rich (he was one of only 7 senators that voted to not have the tax relief this year). On my current income of less than $20,000 per year, without the tax relief this year, I'd be paying 500-600 dollars more in taxes, which is 50% more than I have to pay with the tax relief. FIFTY PERCENT MORE.

And even IF (which he won't) Kerry does keep your taxes the same and only raises it for those making over 200,000 per year, it'll still affect millions of americans, possibly even you. More tax = less jobs, period. Bush was right when he said those hardest hit by such an increase would be small business owners - you know - people who employ a whole lot of other people. Ask ANY small business owner what they think about, say, increasing minimum wage. Ask them what they think about higher taxes. Ask them if they will employ more or less people if such a law (increasing minimum wage or tax on people making over 200,000 per year) goes through.

Quote:

A great, unbiased (unlike me) view is at...

There is no possible way you can claim to be unbiased, just like there is no possible way that I can claim to be unbiased =)

Note: I am still an undecided voter. Seriously. I have my reservations about Bush as well, but they're not as great as those I currently have about Kerry. I was leaning heavily towards voting for Kerry a month ago (before I really started researching his views, I admit).

Here are two more things about Kerry that I would like to see discussed and resolved:

1) Kerry advocates holding summits and building multinational coalitions, yet wants to immediately hold bilateral talks with N Korea, when we already have a multinational coaltion in place to deal with them. What?! I'm almost afraid that Kerry is a madman and wants war and death more than Bush. Bilateral talks will get us nowhere except into more conflict.

See also Kerry's webpage, where, right on the front page, he describes himself as a man "fit to hunt and kill terrorists." Kill terrorists, huh? He keeps saying it, too, even during the debates. "Kill terrorists." Has anyone else noticed that that's EXACTLY THE SAME THING AL-QUEDA SAYS TO THEIR RECRUITS? "Kill Terrorists." "Kill Americans. They are the terrorists. They are the ones making our lives hell."

Yikes.

Bush never says "Kill terrorists," at least not during the debates, and not on his webpage. "Capture and interrogate terrorists" is MUCH more sensible than "Kill terrorists."

2) Kerry, during his closing statement, said that he would never "compromise the safety of our American troops," yet he advocates joining the International Courts, where an unaccountable judge from a 3rd world country can try our soldiers? Somehow I think that would be compromising their safety.
10-09-2004, 09:25 PM
edczxcvbnm

Deficit spending is good for the economy when you are in a recession...but not when the deficits are as high as they are. Now the deficit spending hurts the economy. Wonder if you missed that one in school? I sure didn't.

Bush didn't enter office 6 months into a recession. The recession started after he was president. Cllinton didn't just balance the budget...he got huge surpluses...all through out his administration starting in 1993. Saying that it was because of the dot com boom is a blatant lie.

Kerry's 2.2 trillion is feasible and still drive down the deficit. You will just have to cut back on spending else where and move a lot of money around. Bush has added A LOT of buracracy to the government which has only added to the cost we currently are paying. Knock out a lot of that and other programs that he doesn't want then you would have the money for the new programs.

Bi-lateral talks with N. Korea got us cameras and everything needed to know that they are doing what we said. Bush threw all that away and went towards talks with 6 countries...what has that gotten us? 6 nuclear missles. Yeah. More like Colotion talks are a waste of time and are getting us no where.

As for the whole tax thing. I would gladly pay higher taxes to get things like better schools, medicare, roads and other things. If you give incentives to keep jobs over here instead of outsourcing then you can keep making jobs here also despite small buisnesses not highering a lot of people.

You are just eating the crap that the republican party says.
10-09-2004, 09:43 PM
CloudSquallandZidane

Quote:

Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm

You are just eating the crap that the republican party says.

Ah isnt that the story of the whole other 48% that still wants Bush as pres. People fail to see how in a few years they'll be outsoucred and Bush and Cheney will be sitting on their stock options in haliburton and their permenant tax cuts they they'll be eligible for.

Ive only seen clips of the debate, but id just like to add to this forum how pleased i am that the majority beileve Kerry won. Gives me hope for change instead of more of the same.
10-09-2004, 09:58 PM
edczxcvbnm

Not the whole 48% have that story. A good 30% or more vote that way strictly because they are a 'Republican'. Same thing goes for the democrates.
10-09-2004, 11:08 PM
FightClubFan#47

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Ik any one wants to know

Here are some reasons bush sucks....