FBI Take Free Speech, Sorry I Mean Server

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10-11-2004, 02:38 PM
Baloki

FBI Take Free Speech, Sorry I Mean Server

Quote:

The FBI has shut down some 20 sites which were part of an alternative media network known as Indymedia.
A US court order forced the firm hosting the material to hand over two servers in the UK used by the group.

Indymedia says it is a news source for the anti-globalisation movement and other social justice issues.

The reasons behind the seizure are unclear but the FBI has reportedly said the action was taken at the request of Italian and Swiss authorities.

Legal action

The servers affected were run by Rackspace, a US web hosting company with offices in London.

It said it had received a court order from the US authorities last Thursday to hand over the computer equipment at its UK hosting facility.

Aidan White, International Federation of Journalists
"Rackspace is acting as a good corporate citizen and is cooperating with international law enforcement authorities," said a statement by the company.

It said it was responding to an order issued under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty. Under the agreement, countries assist each other in investigations such as international terrorism, kidnapping and money laundering

The reasons behind the action against the Indymedia websites are unclear.

The group said the servers affected had hosted the sites of more then 20 local collectives and audio streams for several radio stations, as well as several other projects.

"Indymedia had been asked last month by the FBI to remove a story about Swiss undercover police from one of the websites hosted at Rackspace," said the group in a statement.

"It is not known, however, whether Thursday's order is related to that incident since the order was issued to Rackspace and not to Indymedia."

'Intolerable and intrusive'

A FBI spokesperson told the AFP news agency that it was not an FBI operation, saying the order had been issued at the request of Italian and Swiss authorities.

The seizure has sparked off protests from journalist groups.

"We have witnessed an intolerable and intrusive international police operation against a network specialising in independent journalism," said Aidan White, general secretary of the International Federation of Journalists.

"The way this has been done smacks more of intimidation of legitimate journalistic inquiry than crime-busting."

The UK site of Indymedia is back up and running but several of the other 20 sites affected are still offline.

In the US, the civil liberties group, the Electronic Frontier Foundation (EFF) said it was working with Indymedia over how to react to the seizures.

"The constitution does not permit the government unilaterally to cut off the speech of an independent media outlet, especially without providing a reason or even allowing Indymedia the information necessary to contest the seizure," said EFF Staff Attorney Kurt Opsahl.

Story taken from http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3732718.stm

This just makes you think, if the FBI has the right to just take peoples servers to take them off the internet does it mean they have the right to moderate Freedom of Speech?

Do you think what they have done is right or do you feel things should have been handled differently? And do you think that governments of other countries have the right to control the opinions of people in your country?
10-11-2004, 02:42 PM
TasteyPies

That sucks but whatchagunnado
10-11-2004, 02:43 PM
Baloki

Quote:

Originally Posted by TasteyPies

That sucks but whatchagunnado

Campaign and then get my server taken away for being opinionated in the wrong way.
10-11-2004, 05:38 PM
Azure Chrysanthemum

I encourage all webmasters who write controversial material to place a copy of the United States Constitution at the top of their site where someone can see it. I then encourage them to bold and italicize the first amendment.
10-11-2004, 06:22 PM
Endless

first, this is England we're talking about (or Italy/Switzerland). You can post the U.S. Constitution all you want, it doesn't apply.

Second, the FBI most likely isn't behind it, most likely, as Indymedia puts it, it assisted the Italian and Swiss requests: "Indymedia volunteers can only speculate about possible reasons. Switzerland Indymedia suspects that the order might have to do with two photos published on the French site (IMC Nantes) of Swiss undercover police agents in charge of the G8 events in Switzerland in 2003. In the last few weeks there was contact between Swiss, specifically the Genevan governmental authorities, and the FBI. The FBI also approached Rackspace as well as a Seattle Indymedia activist recently regarding that matter, but according to communication from Rackspace to Indymedia on Tuesday, the matter appeared to to be closed.

For its part, Italy Indymedia can only assume that the request is motivated by the Italian government's attitude towards Indymedia, which has been overtly hostile ever since the 2001 G8 Summit in Genoa."

Anyway, regardless of who's at the origin of the seizure, I agree that this is pretty bad, as it indeed seems an attempt to shut down a news site.
10-13-2004, 01:29 AM
nik0tine

Re: FBI Take Free Speech, Sorry I Mean Server

Wait wait, im confused... I didn't think the gestapo existed in the United States...
10-13-2004, 02:08 AM
Casey

Re: FBI Take Free Speech, Sorry I Mean Server

It doesnt effect me.
10-13-2004, 02:16 AM
TasteyPies

Re: FBI Take Free Speech, Sorry I Mean Server

Quote:

Originally Posted by Behold the Void

I encourage all webmasters who write controversial material to place a copy of the United States Constitution at the top of their site where someone can see it. I then encourage them to bold and italicize the first amendment.

What the constitution says won't hold up in court for squat nowadays, it's all friken caselaw
10-13-2004, 08:37 PM
Dr Unne

It's neat how apparently no one here actually read the article, and then no one read Endless's explanation of the article. For example, the part where it says:

"The reasons behind the seizure are unclear but the FBI has reportedly said the action was taken at the request of ********** ->>>>>>> Italian and Swiss <<<<<<<- ********** authorities."

This doesn't have much to do with the policies of the US, other than policies like assisting foreign countries with their law enforcement practicies. Similar to extraditing criminals, I would imagine. Placing a copy of Italian and/or Swiss laws on the top of your websites may be a more appropriate form of protest.

So far as free speech, free speech is not a blanket permit to talk about anything you want. The article says this company was asked to remove something about undercover policemen. I don't know what exactly, but if the company was posting the identities of undercover policemen for example, then that would probably not be legal. Note that a judge in this country can do things like put a gag order on information relating to court matters, and if you talk about it, it's illegal. Note that confidentiality laws exist for things like medical and legal records. There are a lot of times when free speech doesn't apply. Whether this is one of them, and whether free speech in the US is the same as free speech in Italy, I don't know.
10-14-2004, 01:34 AM
Baloki

I take it my english isn't upto scratch because I knew it was the FBI acting on behalf of Italian and Swiss authorities and thats why I included

Quote:

And do you think that governments of other countries have the right to control the opinions of people in your country?

I'm sorry I didn't make my opinion or question clearer, I shall try harder next time :D
10-14-2004, 01:42 AM
Erdrick Holmes

So wait, there people were getting there servers taken away because they showed off anti-governmental media?
10-14-2004, 01:44 AM
Baloki

Not exactly no, supposbaly they reported on a swiss/italian operation that went wrong and those authorities feel theirs something more to it, its very odd...
10-15-2004, 10:57 PM
Garland

Why are British and US citizens being held accountable to Swiss and Italian laws? They aren't Swiss and Italian. Just like it's impossible to try people's of certain Asian countries that don't recognize copyright laws for copyright infractions, it should be impossible for Switzerland and Italy to go after British and US media/internet companies who committed no crime according to their own laws. If I'm thinking on this right, that would mean if Italy, for example, objected to my posting my picture on my personal website, they could have the US government force me to remove it, despite it being perfectly legal in the US. That's not right. As to the issue of secret agents having their cover blown, I'd recommend training better secret agents (that can stay secret). If your law enforcement secrets are being leaked out to media organizations, forget prosecuting the media, try prosecuting the rat in your law enforcement.
10-16-2004, 12:58 AM
Baloki

Just an update on the story really:

Quote:

FBI returns seized news servers

Servers seized by the FBI from the alternative media network known as Indymedia have been returned.
The servers in the outskirts of London were taken last week by the FBI which said it was acting on behalf of Italian and Swiss authorities.

Indymedia hosts sites, news and radio feeds for anti-globalisation groups and other campaigners for social justice.

The media group is now taking legal advice about what action it can take over the seizure of its hardware.

International investigation

During the 7 October raid hard drives were taken that held the websites for many local Indymedia groups, audio feeds for net radio stations as well as several other groups.

Indymedia said some of the 20 sites knocked out by the raid were restored from back-up copies soon after the originals were taken.

Others, such as Antwerp, Belgrade, Liege and Lille, took longer to restore.

Indymedia said some of its local affiliates, notably Uruguay, Italy, Western Massachusetts and Nantes, lost data because of the seizure.

The media group said it had verified that the hard drives returned on 13 October were the ones actually taken in the raid.

With the help of the cyber-liberties group the Electronic Frontier Foundation, it is making sure the returned data is secure and has taken its own copy of it in case of future legal action.

"EFF is deeply concerned about the grave implications of this seizure for free speech and privacy," said Kurt Opsahl, staff attorney for the EFF.

"We are exploring all avenues to hold the government accountable for this improper and unconstitutional silencing of independent media," he said.

The raid was also condemned by the International Federation of Journalists which called it an: ""unacceptable and intrusive international police action".

Gagging order

The drives were seized from the London offices of a San Antonio-based company called Rackspace that hosts the Indymedia sites.

The returned drives are being examined
Rackspace said the legal justification for the raid included a gagging order that prevented it revealing details.

The servers were apparently seized under the Mutual Legal Assistance Treaty which is typically used by nations co-operating to investigate cross-border crimes such as terrorism, kidnapping and money laundering.

In a statement posted on its main website Indymedia said evidence was emerging that four different countries, the US, UK, Italy and Switzerland, were behind the server seizure.

Italian authorities were reportedly investigating the Italian Indymedia group for "supporting terrorism".

Swiss authorities said the raid could help its investigation of Indymedia coverage of 2003's G8 Summit in Evian.

Source http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/3742284.stm