Metal Sub-Genres

This on-going argument about what actually constitutes a sub-genere of metal keeps appearing in other threads, so I'll give it a home of it's own. While trying not to offend anyone. (I'm may be dumb, but not dumb enough to fly right in the face of a threatened ban).

So let me say this now: NOW FLAMING PLEASE. This is obviously directed at a minority of the users. They know who they are... me, for example...

I think that people tend to over-categorise things. I'm not sure why, but it seems to be some sort of odd desire to label everything with a ceratina nd definied genre (I do that with stuff sometimes, but I try to avoid getting too specific). A plan which doesn't work , since many bands change quite a lot, so a band that begins as thrash may end up as death, or one that begins as black metal may end up as folk metal.
I'm going to make a list of genres I think count DON'T OVER-REACT! I know it seems to contradict everything I have just said, coming up with my own random list, but bear with me. This is simply a list of what I think, and is not being stated as fact. It is open to discussion, and nothing I say is written in stone. I'm also going to try and avoid mentioning individual bands, because of the reasosns already stated, and because that just seems to start fights.

METAL: The big, umbrella for all the various sub-genres. Itself a genre of rock, which is probably big-enough to count as a multi-genre or super-genre or somthing.

Heavy Metal: The original stuff, which evolved out of hard rock in the 70s. This is a fairly clear genre, including stuff like Iron Maiden and Judas Priest.
Speed Metal: A mixture of punk and metal which turned up a little after heavy metal. The definitive band of this sub-genre is, in my opinion, Motorhead.
Thrash Metal: Evolved out of speed metal and hardcore punk in the 80s. Noted for being very fast, aswell as heavier and more agrressive than speed metal.
Death Metal: Very heavy metal which evolved out of thrash metal and heavy metal.
Black Metal: Another evolution of thrash, which appeared in the early to mid 80s. Some black metal also contains classical influences
Folk Metal: Heavy metal with folk influences. A fairly incosistent genre, due to the differences in regional folk music. For example, celtic folk metal will sound rather different than norwegian folk metal. Strangely, these badns are rarely successful in their home country, but can become very successful abroad.
Alternative Metal: Agian, failry vauge, but can roughly be defined as less heavy metal, that doesn't fit into the above categories. With the danger of starting some sort of bizzarre (and unwanted) argument, this could refer to stuff like SoaD.
Nu Metal: Newer metal, such as Korn and Linkin Park. Usually not very heavy and often commercialised.
Rap Metal: Obviously, a mixture of rap or hip hop, and metal.
[Later Addition] Industrial: A mixture of metal and electronic music.

I think this more or less covers evrything. I known that some stuff doesn't fit exaclty, but most stuff lies between or across these, or is so rare that it can be ignored.
I didn't add 'Goth metal' because most 'goth metal' really falls into the category of black, death, thrash or speed, or somewhere in between. Goth is more a fashion style- the only thing that sets 'goth' music apart is the lyrics, the dress of the band, and various other non-musical factors.

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Originally Posted by Wikipedia

Death metal has, like most subgenres of heavy metal, proven notoriously difficult to define. Some fans and musicians have a firm concept of the genre, its categories and subcategories. Others consider such categorisation limiting or useless. There is often crossover from one metal genre to another, and the influence of non-metal genres is not uncommon

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[I know these aren't facts, I'm just showing that some people agree with me.]

As I said earlier, this is just my views, and is open to argument. And if I've missed out anything obvious, feel free to say.

Its all just Heavy Metal........no big deal

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Originally Posted by v.e.n.o.m.

Its all just Heavy Metal........no big deal

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There's a big difference between Def Leppard and, say, Ackercocke. I guess this is about attempting to define those specific differences. Personally I don't think it really matters, since what you like is what you like regardless of its genre. The shame of course is that certain genres are branded as band, and bands are misinterpreted or labelled falsely with these black-listed genres, and thusly a band is destroyed by people who really don't know much better. Let's not forget the recent Nu-Metal debaucle of yesteryear.

Its really not that big a deal

EDIT: I hardly think anyones gonna give 3/16 of a rats ass about the sub genres of heavy metal.

... the people that actively listen to and explore the genres such as myself give quite a bit of a rat's ass about the subgenres.

Now, Traitorfish,I agree no flaming. Especially between you and me ^_~

I shall post the basic definitions of what each subgenre sounds like, and then if at all possible a clip of a band that plays the style.

Thrash: A combination of old school Hardcore Punk with Classic Heavy Metal, early thrash bands took the two emerging styles merged them added a healthy dose of speed and went from there. One word defines the instruments in thrash "fast", Riffs are sets of fast chords, drums are played in double bass rolls and fast snare reliant blasts, bass is often limited to fast plucking of the top two strings. Vocals are usually intense but clean and lack vibrato. Slayer, Testament and Exodus are all good examples.

Heathen - Opiate of the Masses
http://www.heathenmetal.com/main/multimedia/vod/02%20Vicitims%20of%20Deception%20-%20Opiate%20of%20the%20Masses.mp3


Black Metal: An extreme evolution of thrash about pushing metal to its audible extremes. Guitars are usually fast and abrasive, often quite minimilistic, and often tremolo picked. Drums are usually fast double bass sections or fast blast beats, usually accompanied by a ride or hi-hat. Vocals are shrieked in a shrill high-pitched tone, and production is often very rough to enhance the atmosphere and abrasiveness of the music. Mayhem, Darkthrone, Gorgorth, Burzum and Kreig are all excellent examples of Pure Black Metal. Some bands may add more symphonic/melodic elements to their sound.

Gorgoroth - Procreating Satan
http://home.online.no/~jmyksvol/samples/procreating-satan.mp3

Rotting Christ - Shadows Follow (Melodic BM)
http://www.rotting-christ.com/download/Rotting%20Christ%20_%20Shadows%20Follow.mp3

Death Metal: The other evolution of Thrash, this branch of bands went in a very different direction with the Thrash prototype, they thickened the guitar tone, inserted a lot of musicianship, morbidity, groove and speed (yes even more). Double bass sections are usually faster, more blasts are used and riffs are usually a lot more technical. However the main thing that sets DM apart is the vocals. Vibrato soaked growls that are projected from the abdomen and shaped with the throat, this is as important part of the music as any of the instruments. Morbid Angel, Cryptopsy, Origin, and Death are all good examples of Death Metal.

Demilich - The Planet that Once Used to Absorb Flesh in Order to Achieve Divinity and Immortality (Suffocated to the Flesh that it Desired...)
http://www.anentity.com/demilich/get.php/files/Nespithe/Nespithe_MP3/Demilich%20-%20Nespithe%20-%2009%20-%20The%20Planet%20that%20Once%20Used%20to%20Absorb%20Flesh%20in%20Order%20to%20Achieve%20Divinity%20 and%20Immortality%20(Suffocated%20to%20the%20Flesh%20that%20it%20Desired...).mp3

Power Metal: A straight evolution of Classic Heavy Metal, through Iron Maiden who despite not being Power themselves were a massive influence on the genre. Power Metal places a high focus on guitar harmonies and melodies, extravagant solos are used often and riffs tend to "gallop" due to the chord progressions used. Subject matter is quite often fantasy based. Lost Horizon, Hammerfal and Stratovarius are good examples of this.

Blind Guardian - Mirror Mirror
http://www.blind-guardian.com/new_version/mediaplayer.php3?title=Mirror%20Mirror&filename=discography/media/Mirror_Mirror_Trailer.mp3&width=200&height=10

Melodic Death Metal: Or "Melo-Death" is a combination of Power Metal structures with those of Death Metal, Maidenesque twin guitar harmonies are used liberally, drums usually contain a certain amount of rhythm and groove, technicality is at a mid to high level and vocals are usually growled, although at a higher pitch than standard Death Metal. In Flames, Soilwork, At The Gates and Arch Enemy are all obvious examples of Melo-Death

Arsis - The Face of My Innocence
http://www.worshipdepraved.com/sounds/TheFaceofMyInnocence.mp3

Progressive Metal: A combination of the ideals of 70’s/80’s prog bands such as Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin with the distortion, groove, rythym and structure of classic heavy Metal. What came out was a legion of bands led by Dream Theater who featured immense technical ability, numerous time signature and tempo changes, long sweeping instrumental sections . Each song often sounds different from the last due to the fact that they draw influence from all over the place and extravagant solo sections are almost a necessity.

Pain of Salvation - The Perfect Element
http://www.painofsalvation.com/samples/perfshort.mp3


Grindcore: An extreme form of Hardcore Punk. Characterized by heavy use of blast beats, heavily distorted bass, and extremely fast, grinding guitars. Vocals are typically guttural bellows, but higher pitched screams are also used. Lyrical content is political with Grindcore in its purest form. Emphasis on simplicity, just as in punk. Napalm Death, Nasum, Burned Up Bled Dry, Extreme Noise Terror and Siege are all excellent examples of Grind. Modern grind or "Tech Grind" as it is sometimes called is slightly different in that it is based more on modern Metalcore than in old school punk, the obvious examples of this are of course Pig Destroyer.

smurf ... I'm Dead - Licky Webster (should be the first song to pop up)
http://www.myspace.com/smurfimdeadgrind

Doom Metal: This term has grown to mean "anything that draws influence from the first two Sabbath albums" but I resent that, real doom is painfully slow, depressing music, with long monotonous drones for riffs, simple drums and particularly pained vocals (usually lower than their DM counterparts). Most Doom Metal puts the emphasis more on atmosphere and "feel" of the music, rather than any individual notes or riffs. Examples include Saturnus, While Heaven Wept and Skepticism.

Novembers Doom - Swalloed by the Moon
http://media.theendrecords.com/NovembersDoom_PaleHauntDeparture_SwallowedBytheMoon.mp3

Sludge: Typically a sub-genre of hardcore, although borrowing from genres such as Industrial, Grindcore, and even Southern Rock. Characterized by incredibly slow, grinding, dirgy guitars, primarily rhythmic drumming, and screams which sound particularly painful. Subject matter can be about anything, but is most typically about drug use or various states of emotion. the most easily recognizable bands in this genre are Eyehategod, Crowbar, Soilent Green, Beaten Back To Pure, and Rabies Caste.

Acid Bath - Paegan Love Song
http://rottenrecords.com/mp3s/Acid%20Bath%20-%20Paegan%20Love%20Song.mp3

Metalcore: In short: Hardcore + A Metal Genre (Usually Thrash Or Death) Very similar to Hardcore in most respects, but instead of using either overly abstract riffs (The DEP) or simple mosh riffs (Hatebreed), they tend to use much more Thrash or Death influenced guitar work. Metalcore tends not to have the genericore Hardcore vocals and the drumming is more tribal instead of jumping between slow blast beats and rolls. Zao, Johnny Truant, Luddite Clone and Into Eternity are all good examples of the range of sound Metalcore can create.

Killswitch Engage - Temple from the Within
http://www.killswitchengage.com/shared/downloads/KillswitchEngage/Killswitch_Engage_TempleFromTheWithin.mp3

Folk metal: To be quite brief: Metal + Folk music. It usually combines power or black metal, with Celtic folk music but it can be just about any sub-genre of metal mixed with just about any brand of folk music.

Korpiklaani - Cottages and Saunas
http://www.spv.de/SoundsF/3/37022~0001001.mp3

EDIT: Forgot Heavy metal, but heh. Stick to the definition that is in traitorfish's post. A sample? Ok.

http://www.ironmaiden.com/discograph...ficarus_56.wmv

Iron Maiden - Flight of Icarus

Now realize that within each of these sub-genres there are other sub-sub genres but I really don't feel the need to classify them that far in this case.

So, I do believe I have covered the most basic forms of metal, and one of punk >_> Grindcore often is related to DM so I felt it proper to mention them it. So yeah, I hope this will clear up any problems people may have with me and not backing up my claims as to what the genres are. ^___^

I feel like something is missing here.

Industrial Metal
One of my favourite metal subgenres(especially the NDH sub-subgenre). It's pretty much electronic music + metal, although if the metal part of the music is black metal, it often gets labelled as "cyber metal" or "space metal" for some reason. However, many argue whether this is a subgenre within metal or electronic music.

Short samples:
Richthofen - Blut der Pferde
OOMPH! - Ich bin der Weg

Well Nu metal IS rap metal, for the guy who made this thread. Nu metal consists of funky metal guitar riffs and shouted/rapped lyrics, so those two genres are the same thing :up:

Well, first I have to admit that I did forget Industrial metal. Pretty stupid, considering I was listening to Rammstein at the time...
To Crushed Hope: You're probably right about Power Metal, but I tend to think of that as just slightly newer heavy metal.
As for the rest of your genres, I can see where you got them, but they're really too over-specific. A lot of them are really just ways of trying to fit a band into a genre. For example, say a band that isn't quite heavy and isn't quite death. You could just acept that it lies in between, but a lot of people have a tendancy to come up with a a bizzare new genre, like 'Deavthy Metal'. Then someone crosses that with industrial, so you get 'Indeavthial' or something... It's really just too complex and, from a musical point of view, really quite limiting.

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Originally Posted by Alive-Man

Well Nu metal IS rap metal, for the guy who made this thread. Nu metal consists of funky metal guitar riffs and shouted/rapped lyrics, so those two genres are the same thing :up:

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Not really- Rap-Metal is more like rap with a metal element, while Nu Metal is the other way round- metal with rap influences.

Oh I know that there are bands that do combine the genres, and that is why they are really, fluid. There is always room for a hand to go in between genres, one of the major ones: Strapping Young Lad, who combine thrash, death, black, and industrial metal.

Not a band I enjoy but I do get your point.

I just have grown to classify things as much as I do due to listing to so much metal as I do, I just sorta of >_> have to. =P

Oh and on industrial metal, Oomph! nor Rammstein are really metal, more or less industrial rock, still good bands. The Kovenant is a better example but hey I won't press the issue because when I do we all know what may happen :tongue:

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Originally Posted by Traitorfish

Not really- Rap-Metal is more like rap with a metal element, while Nu Metal is the other way round- metal with rap influences.

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Makes sense I guess lol

Whether or not a band is industrial rock or industrial metal always seem to be a big issue when defining the music of a band. After analyzing what tr00 metal heads define as industrial metal, I've come to the conclusion that if a metal band uses elecronics and death or black metal vocals, it's an industrial metal band, but if it uses clean vocals or sings in German, it's industrial rock. I think this is a really stupid way to define the genre, but that is generally how it works.

The Kovenant isn't really a good example of industrial metal either. They started out as a regular black metal band and not until the release of Animatronic could they be considered an industrial metal band. Then their next release, S.E.T.I. was a good example of what tr00 metal heads consider "not metal". Rammstein is the ugly commercialization of industrial metal or something else, but I would never consider them rock. OOMPH! on the other hand are a lot of things, but only their latest album could be considered rock. Their first release was an EBM album, then they pretty much invented NDH, which I consider to be a Industrial Metal subgenre and by Plastik they left the metal genre for something else. Industrial rock would IMO be something like NiN or KMFDM. I can't imagine how anyone could consider an album such as OOMPH!'s Defekt to be rock.

I've noticed that the entire Neue Deutsche Härte scene seems to be considered not metal, but if it isn't metal, then what is it? I am talking about music like OOMPH!'s "Wunschkind" or "Sperm", Die Allergie's "Dunkelgraue Lieder für das nächste Jahrtausend", Die Krupps's "Oddyssey of the mind", Richthofen's "Seelenwalzer" or "Helden der Zeit", Ewigheim's "Mord nicht ohne Grund", Megaherz's "Himmelfahrt", Niederschlag's "Mehr als sterben", Atrocity's "Gemini", Schacht's "Schachtplatte", Schmerz's "Schmerzwerk", Schweisser's "Willkommen im Club", Stahlhammer's "Feind hört mit" or "Eisenherz", Turmion Kätilöt's "Hoitovirhe", Weissglut's "Zeichen", Icekalt's "Das kalte Herz", Toxsin's "Illusion" or even The Kovenant's "S.E.T.I.".

Where does this type of music really belong? I claim it's in the metal genre, but the metal elitists seem to disagree.

@Traitorfish: Industrial and Industrial metal are two completely different things.

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Originally Posted by jrgen

@Traitorfish: Industrial and Industrial metal are two completely different things.

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OK... after a rather sensible post criticising metal elitists, you go all metal elitists on me. What for? I don't care if Rammstein are inudstrial rock or industrial metal.
The only real use of genres is for quick reference - "What kind of music do you like?" "Oh, metal" - and for arraning music stores in an easy-to-follow fashion.
Despite the fact that half the ones I've seen ignore this, prefering a corner somwhere with a sign saying 'Rock/Metal', while all the stupid R&B and Hip Hop CDs take up four aisles at the front of the store.
Thank god for Fopp! (That's a really good CD/DVD/Video/Book store in Britain. They sell stuff at good, cheap prices, and don't just sell commercialised crap... possibly because they may speciffically sell the crap that no one else wants).
Now that went off topic...

i never understood why people want to ghettoize and segregate all their musical tastes into extremely-defined sub-genres. It's good to discuss what various artists in a certain stylistic mold are doing and to compare/contrast. But people should work together, not against each other, and splitting up into various überspecific camps only fractures the fanbase that should be unified.

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Originally Posted by eestlinc

i never understood why people want to ghettoize and segregate all their musical tastes into extremely-defined sub-genres. It's good to discuss what various artists in a certain stylistic mold are doing and to compare/contrast. But people should work together, not against each other, and splitting up into various überspecific camps only fractures the fanbase that should be unified.

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Im right up there with ya on that one Eestlinc

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Originally Posted by Traitorfish

OK... after a rather sensible post criticising metal elitists, you go all metal elitists on me. What for? I don't care if Rammstein are inudstrial rock or industrial metal.

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I wasn't going metal elitist. I was just stating that industrial isn't even remotely related to metal or rock music. It's either very experimental electronic music or a bunch of sounds made with everyday objects, such as shopping carts, pencils, duct tape or whatever. Industrial != industrial rock.