Rinoa IS You Know Who!! Stop denying it!!!!!!! (Spoilers)

First off, the Final Fantasy "Ultimania" guide makes no individual or explicit comment on Rinoa or Ultimecia's ipseity, therefore the FFVIII FAQ in this forum is imprecise in stating that it is "not possible" for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. The only germane notion the guide produces pertaining to the R=U thesis is the now canonical statement about sorceresses having intrinsically normal life spans.

Now, we can all know (or at least, we can all comprehend) that when suppositions such as "time compression" and "time manipulation" come into play, any order of normal life spans based on "normal time" become obsolete and extraneous. The concept of time compression also dismantles the syllogistic argument of recursive and subsequently independent "moment-to-moment" time, because the very nature of time compression seeks to coagulate all time and all moments together, therefore instituting a universal singularity with one time and one continuity that possesses unabridged cause and effect.

So what does this all mean? It indicates that Ultimecia's leverage in Squall and Rinoa's timeline most conclusively altered their future due to the temporary temporal singularity created by Ultimecia's attempt at time compression. Because of time compression, no lateral or surrogate timelines or universes are generated and no paradoxes are encountered. Instead, we have the realization of one of man's most ancient fantasies: changing the past. When the temporary time compression phenomenon ended upon Ultimecia's destruction and time was "unfolded" from its compressed state to its "normal" state, a reverberation agent created an echo effect from the point in the time dimension signifying Rinoa and Squall's time into and throughout the future, based accordingly upon the changes caused by Ultimecia's interference in the past.

This subsequently means that if Rinoa ever was on course to become the sorceress Ultimecia, she may now never consummate this possibility because of the reverberating repercussions in the future caused by Ultimecia in Rinoa and Squall's timeline. The ultimate denouement may very well be a completely different future.

And now, following a proof of plausibility and possibility, I say to you climactically that I most surely claim Rinoa to be Ultimecia and there is nothing you or anyone else can do about it!!! (unless you work for Square Enix and are able to issue canonical, post-release plot resolutions).

P.S. Stay tuned for a proof of probability of the R=U theory!!

-LYCHON

There has been huge debates on this in the past. This is just one on them.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthrea...inoa+ultimecia

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

There has been huge debates on this in the past. This is just one on them.

http://forums.eyesonff.com/showthrea...inoa+ultimecia

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Yes, I am aware that this topic has been discussed many times on these forums. I have brought it up again because I have new evidence and because the FFVIII FAQ incorrectly states that Rinoa is not Ultimecia (it implies that this conclusion is expressed or supported by the FFVIII Ultimania guide, which is not the case).

-LYCHON

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Originally Posted by Lychon

Yes, I am aware that this topic has been discussed many times on these forums. I have brought it up again because I have new evidence and because the FFVIII FAQ incorrectly states that Rinoa is not Ultimecia (it implies that this conclusion is expressed or supported by the FFVIII Ultimania guide, which is not the case).

-LYCHON

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How can the faq incorrectly state this. The only way this can truly be proven is if square came out and said, "Rinoa is Ultimacia." All we can do is speculate as fans of the game. Does your new evidence prove 100% that Rinoa IS Ultimecia, because if it doesnt it is only another speculation. Still i wont make any assumptions untill you reveal your proof of probability of the R=U theory.

You've got the burden of proof.

You haven't proved anything.

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

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Originally Posted by Lychon

Yes, I am aware that this topic has been discussed many times on these forums. I have brought it up again because I have new evidence and because the FFVIII FAQ incorrectly states that Rinoa is not Ultimecia (it implies that this conclusion is expressed or supported by the FFVIII Ultimania guide, which is not the case).

-LYCHON

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How can the faq incorrectly state this. The only way this can truly be proven is if square came out and said, "Rinoa is Ultimacia." All we can do is speculate as fans of the game. Does your new evidence prove 100% that Rinoa IS Ultimecia, because if it doesnt it is only another speculation. But, untill you actually share this information, i will not judge. So whenever you want to share it.

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Since Square Enix has not stated specifically whether or not Ultimecia is Rinoa, therefore the FAQ is incorrect to state that it is "not possible" for the latter to be the former. Since the FAQ references the guide in these statements, it implies that the conclusions reached regarding R=U are derived from said guide. This is false, since the only pertaining information in the guide is the mention that sorceresses have normal life spans.

If you had actually read my initial post in this thread instead of carelessly posting inertial responses, you will have noticed that I only set out to prove that the R=U theory is both possible and plausible, not that it was true. I believe I have done this. So I think I'll "share" it with you now. Here's what you have to do: use your nice little computer input device called a "mouse" and scroll to the top of the page while viewing this thread. Now you'll have to engage in something called "reading." Let me know if you were successful.

-LYCHON

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Originally Posted by Rubah

You've got the burden of proof.

You haven't proved anything.

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The plausibly and possibility of the theory have been proven using known methods of logic, philosophy, metaphysics, and physics. Perhaps if you people actually read and argued the points of the proof you would understand that it is not a proof of the TRUTH of R=U, but only of its possibility………….

Also, if the burden of proof is on me, then the burden of disproof is also on the person who wishes to prove the theory false. In the FFVIII FAQ, this disproof has not been furnished and yet the statement that R=U "is not possible" still remains. Bias much?

P.S. Bow down
P.P.S. Seriously

-LYCHON

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Originally Posted by Lychon

Since Square Enix has not stated specifically whether or not Ultimecia is Rinoa, therefore the FAQ is incorrect to state that it is "not possible" for the latter to be the former. Since the FAQ references the guide in these statements, it implies that the conclusions reached regarding R=U are derived from said guide. This is false, since the only pertaining information in the guide is the mention that sorceresses have normal life spans.

If you had actually read my initial post in this thread instead of carelessly posting inertial responses, you will have noticed that I only set out to prove that the R=U theory is both possible and plausible, not that it was true. I believe I have done this. So I think I'll "share" it with you now. Here's what you have to do: use your nice little computer input device called a "mouse" and scroll to the top of the page while viewing this thread. Now you'll have to engage in something called "reading." Let me know if you were successful.

-LYCHON

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Well I did read you initial post, I also read the title of the thread.
"Rinoa IS you know who!! Stop denying it"
And then you state R=U, so you are saying Rinoa IS Ultimacia, because thats what YOU said. Then you say its plausible, and possible. But many things are pluasible, why go through them all. So which is it, you want to talk about plausible, this is a video game, and none of this is plausible at all.
Which brings up another point, you are basing all of this on our earths, physics and concepts of time, and its manipulation. But the world of Final Fantasy 8 is nothing like our world at all. Lets take for instance the MAGIC, being used in the game. The fact that you can circle the world in about 10 seconds. They would most likely have to be traveling faster than light, and Einstien said it is impossible for anything to travel that fast. And if our concepts did apply to them, and they were travelling at or close to the speed of light then during regular gameplay you would already be acheiving some sort of time travel, into the future, which you arent. I am just saying, things that apply here dont there. So you can not adapt our concepts to that world, therefor making any assuption you have, not plausible.
Oh and thanks for the mouse advice. ;)

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

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Originally Posted by Lychon

Since Square Enix has not stated specifically whether or not Ultimecia is Rinoa, therefore the FAQ is incorrect to state that it is "not possible" for the latter to be the former. Since the FAQ references the guide in these statements, it implies that the conclusions reached regarding R=U are derived from said guide. This is false, since the only pertaining information in the guide is the mention that sorceresses have normal life spans.

If you had actually read my initial post in this thread instead of carelessly posting inertial responses, you will have noticed that I only set out to prove that the R=U theory is both possible and plausible, not that it was true. I believe I have done this. So I think I'll "share" it with you now. Here's what you have to do: use your nice little computer input device called a "mouse" and scroll to the top of the page while viewing this thread. Now you'll have to engage in something called "reading." Let me know if you were successful.

-LYCHON

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Well I did read you initial post, I also read the title of the thread.
"Rinoa IS you know who!! Stop denying it"
And then you state R=U, so you are saying Rinoa IS Ultimacia, because thats what YOU said. Then you say its plausible, and possible. But many things are pluasible, why go through them all. So which is it, you want to talk about plausible, this is a video game, and none of this is plausible at all.
Oh and thanks for the mouse advice. ;)

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The title of my thread is an attention grabber. I see that you once again didn’t even bother to read my first post in this thread but instead assumed that I was rehashing old, worthless arguments. If you understood pragmatism and read my post, you would have understood the nature of my thread’s title. (Surely the numerous exclamation marks were a hint?)

I made it a point to prove the plausibility and possibility of the R=U theory because the FFVIII FAQ stated that it was “not possible” for the theory to be true. This statement is unsubstantiated from Square Enix and therefore is just as erroneous as stating that Rinoa definitely IS Ultimecia. Therefore, I had good reason to “talk” about what is plausible and possible in the R=U theory.

In my actual post, I specifically conclude with the disclaimer that my thread is intended as a proof of the plausibility and possibility of the R=U theory, not the truth of it. Only afterwards do I make a personal statement that I myself believe and claim the R=U theory to be true. But academically speaking, I only ventured to defend the theory’s plausibility and possibility.

P.S. :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

-LYCHON

So what you are saying that you are going to prove that it is plausible, for R=U. Because truthfully i dont think there is many people here who wont belive it is possible. I believe it is plausible, enough said. But i did elaborate on my previous post as to why you theory wouldnt work.
But i am pretty sure everybody knows it is plausible.
Oh, here is what i edited in in my other post.

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

Well I did read you initial post, I also read the title of the thread.
"Rinoa IS you know who!! Stop denying it"
And then you state R=U, so you are saying Rinoa IS Ultimacia, because thats what YOU said. Then you say its plausible, and possible. But many things are pluasible, why go through them all. So which is it, you want to talk about plausible, this is a video game, and none of this is plausible at all.
Which brings up another point, you are basing all of this on our earths, physics and concepts of time, and its manipulation. But the world of Final Fantasy 8 is nothing like our world at all. Lets take for instance the MAGIC, being used in the game. The fact that you can circle the world in about 10 seconds. They would most likely have to be traveling faster than light, and Einstien said it is impossible for anything to travel that fast. And if our concepts did apply to them, and they were travelling at or close to the speed of light then during regular gameplay you would already be acheiving some sort of time travel, into the future, which you arent. I am just saying, things that apply here dont there. So you can not adapt our concepts to that world, therefor making any assuption you have, not plausible.
Oh and thanks for the mouse advice.

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Originally Posted by Lychon

The plausibly and possibility of the theory have been proven using known methods of logic, philosophy, metaphysics, and physics. Perhaps if you people actually read and argued the points of the proof you would understand that it is not a proof of the TRUTH of R=U, but only of its possibility………….

Also, if the burden of proof is on me, then the burden of disproof is also on the person who wishes to prove the theory false. In the FFVIII FAQ, this disproof has not been furnished and yet the statement that R=U "is not possible" still remains. Bias much?

P.S. Bow down
P.P.S. Seriously

-LYCHON

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Disproof?

There's nothing in the game that says it's true. There's your disproof right there.

And for it merely being a possibility of it being true, you're getting awfully defensive and anal about the entire thing.

for all we know ultemecia is the rinoa that didnt get back to her time in another dimension and got powerful and forgot cuz this new dimension has weird time laws and shed warped into the hideous ultemecia but i doubt it

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

So what you are saying that you are going to prove that it is plausible, for R=U. Because truthfully i dont think there is many people here who wont belive it is possible. I believe it is plausible, enough said. But i did elaborate on my previous post as to why you theory wouldnt work.
But i am pretty sure everybody knows it is plausible.

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Precisely. I believe I have already proved it plausible for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. As I stated in the very last sentence of my first post in this thread, next I intend to prove the probability that Rinoa is Ultimecia.

Since you seemingly admit to the plausibility of Rinoa being Ultimecia, then you must surely disagree with the FFVIII FAQ statement that it is "not possible" for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. Hence, (by dialectical deduction) you must surely believe that the FFVIII FAQ in this forum to be erroneous in reference to the R=U theory.


-LYCHON

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Originally Posted by Lychon

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

So what you are saying that you are going to prove that it is plausible, for R=U. Because truthfully i dont think there is many people here who wont belive it is possible. I believe it is plausible, enough said. But i did elaborate on my previous post as to why you theory wouldnt work.
But i am pretty sure everybody knows it is plausible.

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Precisely. I believe I have already proved it plausible for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. As I stated in the very last sentence of my first post in this thread, next I intend to prove the probability that Rinoa is Ultimecia.

Since you seemingly admit to the plausibility of Rinoa being Ultimecia, then you must surely disagree with the FFVIII FAQ statement that it is "not possible" for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. Hence, (by dialectical deduction) you must surely believe that the FFVIII FAQ in this forum to be erroneous in reference to the R=U theory.


-LYCHON

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Well maybe it shouldnt say "not possible." I personnally have never looked at the faq, so i thought it said...

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Originally Posted by LYCHON

the FFVIII FAQ incorrectly states that Rinoa is not Ultimecia

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And thats why i was arguing. The FAQ i believe would be right is saying this b/c the faq should state fact. The reasong this would be fact is because like i said earlier WE, can only speculate and believe R=U, but never be able to say 100%, so as a basis the FAQ should say Rinoa is not Ultimecia.

... I'm still waiting for the proof of Rinoa probably being Ulti.

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

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Originally Posted by Lychon

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Originally Posted by disapointedchild

So what you are saying that you are going to prove that it is plausible, for R=U. Because truthfully i dont think there is many people here who wont belive it is possible. I believe it is plausible, enough said. But i did elaborate on my previous post as to why you theory wouldnt work.
But i am pretty sure everybody knows it is plausible.

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Precisely. I believe I have already proved it plausible for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. As I stated in the very last sentence of my first post in this thread, next I intend to prove the probability that Rinoa is Ultimecia.

Since you seemingly admit to the plausibility of Rinoa being Ultimecia, then you must surely disagree with the FFVIII FAQ statement that it is "not possible" for Rinoa to be Ultimecia. Hence, (by dialectical deduction) you must surely believe that the FFVIII FAQ in this forum to be erroneous in reference to the R=U theory.


-LYCHON

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Well maybe it shouldnt say "not possible." I personnally have never looked at the faq, so i thought it said...

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Originally Posted by LYCHON

the FFVIII FAQ incorrectly states that Rinoa is not Ultimecia

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And thats why i was arguing. The FAQ i believe would be right is saying this b/c the faq should state fact. The reasong this would be fact is because like i said earlier WE, can only speculate and believe R=U, but never be able to say 100%, so as a basis the FAQ should say Rinoa is not Ultimecia.

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That is logically flawed. Just because the affirmative side of an argument cannot be proven without a doubt does not mean that the negative should be automatically taken as default. The FAQ is misleading and incorrect, especially in the face of plausible and possible proof that Rinoa may in fact be Ultimecia. It should instead read something along the lines of "based on the information provided in the FFVIII game and the Ultimania guide, it is unconvincing that Rinoa is or ever will become Ultimecia."

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Originally Posted by G SpOtZ

... I'm still waiting for the proof of Rinoa probably being Ulti.

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That's upcoming....for now you'll have to settle for the proof of the plausibility and possibility of Rinoa being Ultimecia, which is post # 1 in this thread. :)

-LYCHON