Basch.
Because I dont know who Rosa is. (If that's valid)
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Basch.
Because I dont know who Rosa is. (If that's valid)
I suppose, however, I'd prefer if you go and checked up on her character profile in the FFIV section of this frontsite.
Basch has more skill and white mages alone can't win fights, just see how hard it is with an all white mag eparty in X-2, or any other FF that let's you change jobs. Rosa could hit from afar, but her attacks are weak and Basch as a war veteran can handle a few arrows and can probably block most of them. White mages are also very low on defense and their only offensive spell is Holy. Basch All the way!
Considering Basch can also use a bow as seen in the opening sequence of FFXII, the ranged attack point is invalid.
And if Rosa gets access to Holy, Basch should equally get access to the liscence board (as it was said in the Balthier/Kimahri round).
Even without Holy she can pelt him with arrows forever while moving to keep him at a distance. He may use a bow in the opening sequence, but I don't recall him starting with bows when you get him so those are out for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Takara
basch would win. He's a knight and Rosa is a damsel in distress.
Two can play at that game. See 5:15-5:22.Quote:
Originally Posted by GoldenbokoHey, she has a bow, she could just pick him off long ranged.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
Even if she didn't need to sleep or rest, Basch would doubtlessly be able to outrun her (a man of his physique against a female archer?). In any case, Basch's inability to use a bow is only an in-game mechanic. If Basch can't use bows, then ranged weapons have no advantage apart from allowing the wielder to attack from the back row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22Even without Holy she can pelt him with arrows forever while moving to keep him at a distance. He may use a bow in the opening sequence, but I don't recall him starting with bows when you get him so those are out for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Takara
You can't compare these people based on battle mechanics, so any talk of attacking from the back row is pointless. And the fact is that Basch, as a knight character wearing Heavier armour, and carrying a heavy shield will not be able to outrun a lightly armoured Archer. Ever. Even if he could still outsprint her, he would tire quickly at that pace. She need do nothing but keep him at a distance and pelt him and she wins.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo VolondéEven if she didn't need to sleep or rest, Basch would doubtlessly be able to outrun her (a man of his physique against a female archer?). In any case, Basch's inability to use a bow is only an in-game mechanic. If Basch can't use bows, then ranged weapons have no advantage apart from allowing the wielder to attack from the back row.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22Even without Holy she can pelt him with arrows forever while moving to keep him at a distance. He may use a bow in the opening sequence, but I don't recall him starting with bows when you get him so those are out for him.Quote:
Originally Posted by Takara
but if bash has armour on surely the arrow wont pierce him.
Besides cant basch just block until rosa runs out of arrows
Oh? So what were you doing when you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Battle mechanics and in-game mechanics (which are the basis of the bolded quote) are codepedent. You can't have one without the other.Quote:
He may use a bow in the opening sequence, but I don't recall him starting with bows when you get him so those are out for him.
You missed my point. What I was saying is that if Basch can't use bows, then they are the equivalent of a melee weapon, except for the back-row potential. If you don't want to deal in battle mechanics, you must allow Basch to use bows.Quote:
so any talk of attacking from the back row is pointless.
That's assuming all people are clones, and that a female mage (archer is her secondary capacity) could compete physically with a male knight. In any case, if she could run away, then Basch can use a bow.Quote:
And the fact is that Basch, as a knight character wearing Heavier armour, and carrying a heavy shield will not be able to outrun a lightly armoured Archer. Ever. Even if he could still outsprint her, he would tire quickly at that pace.
No. Unlike Balthier, Rosa's weapon, when you consider her strength, has little or no stopping power, and she would waste valuable seconds drawing the arrow, aiming, and firing, and the arrow would most likely be deflected by Basch's shield. This process will continue until she runs out of arrows. Then she will have no way to hurt Basch.Quote:
She need do nothing but keep him at a distance and pelt him and she wins.
I'm comparing based on the skills they start out with in game, and how they would fare in a real world situation. Skills such as the ability to use bows are not dependant on battle mechanics. You can't discuss these fights based on the actual mechanics of how someone fights within their own game since the battle systems in every FF are too different, let alone between IV and XII.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo VolondéOh? So what were you doing when you said:Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Battle mechanics and in-game mechanics (which are the basis of the bolded quote) are codepedent. You can't have one without the other.Quote:
He may use a bow in the opening sequence, but I don't recall him starting with bows when you get him so those are out for him.
Like I said, Basch doesn't start out with the ability to use bows in the game. That has nothing to do with the mechanics of the actual battle system. In my opinion he shouldn't get the use of them in this comparison then.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
She doesn't have to compete physicaly with a male knight. Odds are, even a white mage is going to be reasonably fit from all of that travelling the world on foot. As such she should have no trouble keeping her distance from a knight with full armour, shield, and sword. Regardless of Basch's physical condition, a heavily armoured knight can only move so fast, and certainly can't keep a full run going for long. A lightly armoured mage should be able to move faster and keep her distance without tiring as soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
Actually drawing the bow takes little time at all for someone experienced with one. And given that she'd have the skill to hit a moving target, aiming and firing certainly wouldn't take very long either. Also, none of the shields in FFXII are large enough to cover the entire body. Basch is unlikely to be able to block all of her arrows, particularly if she aims for vital areas, such as the feet, knees and other joints, as any skilled archer would. And though Rosa would lack the physical strength to draw something like an English Longbow, a smaller bow more suited to her could still have tremendous stopping power. It may not pass through plate armour, but if the armour is to offer any mobility, then it won't be full body plate armour as that's just about the least practical thing you could wear. Therefore, she should still have plenty of stopping power, not to mention years of experience with a bow.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firo Volondé
believe it or not I'm going with the underdog, Basch
That's an oxymoron. Basch doesn't start with bows in the game, but in a real world situation, he would certainly take a bow, especially if he was against another archer.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Yes, so Basch should be able to use a bow even if he can't in a battle.Quote:
Skills such as the ability to use bows are not dependant on battle mechanics.
That's all true, but you're the one who based Basch's ability based on how he fights in his own game when you said "He doesn't use with bows when you get him so those are out for him."Quote:
You can't discuss these fights based on the actual mechanics of how someone fights within their own game since the battle systems in every FF are too different, let alone between IV and XII.
Yes, it does. There are only two kinds of mechanics you can use: real world mechanics or in-game mechanics. The former means he can use a bow, the latter means he can't. Since battle mechanics and real-world mechanics can't co-exist (since when do you stand around waiting your turn in a real-world fight?) if the battle mechanics are applied, you must apply in-game mechanics as well, and therefore Basch can't use bows.Quote:
Like I said, Basch doesn't start out with the ability to use bows in the game. That has nothing to do with the mechanics of the actual battle system.
There's a flaw in that argument. If one real world mechanic is true, then they all are. Similarly, If one real world mechanic is false, then they all are. The ability to keep your distance and Basch's ability to use bows are both real-world mechanics. Simply put, if Rosa can keep her distance, then Basch will shoot her. If he can't use bows, then she cannot move out of the range of his sword.Quote:
She doesn't have to compete physicaly with a male knight. Odds are, even a white mage is going to be reasonably fit from all of that travelling the world on foot. As such she should have no trouble keeping her distance from a knight with full armour, shield, and sword. Regardless of Basch's physical condition, a heavily armoured knight can only move so fast, and certainly can't keep a full run going for long. A lightly armoured mage should be able to move faster and keep her distance without tiring as soon.
Except Rosa is, first and foremost, a white mage. Her job was to fight alongside Cecil, just like her mother fought alongside her father. We can then assume her bow skills were only rudimentary, as a Dark Knight would be in more need of a healer than an archer. She would work more on her magic than her archery. The main purpose of her bow would be to pick off any enemies out of Cecil's range.Quote:
Actually drawing the bow takes little time at all for someone experienced with one. And given that she'd have the skill to hit a moving target, aiming and firing certainly wouldn't take very long either.
There's a difference between aiming for a point and actually hitting it. Again, Rosa is no Legolas. Basch, however, could easily compete with Aragorn.Quote:
Also, none of the shields in FFXII are large enough to cover the entire body. Basch is unlikely to be able to block all of her arrows, particularly if she aims for vital areas, such as the feet, knees and other joints, as any skilled archer would.
Not against anybody wearing strong armour.Quote:
And though Rosa would lack the physical strength to draw something like an English Longbow, a smaller bow more suited to her could still have tremendous stopping power.
Only in real world mechanics. He would be wearing it, and if it restricted his movements, he could still pick her off with his bow.Quote:
It may not pass through plate armour, but if the armour is to offer any mobility, then it won't be full body plate armour as that's just about the least practical thing you could wear.
That wouldn't be enough for her to beat Basch in a one-on-one.Quote:
Therefore, she should still have plenty of stopping power, not to mention years of experience with a bow.
Wow this is gettin crazy.
I think in this fight, Protect and Holy says it all. But a Knight's a Knight and there's no way a white mage could stop one, if we're talking at similar potentials.
Basch Lives!
Yeah, but if people go with only the basic skills the character has when s/he first joins your party, Rosa only has basic white magic. Assuming neither opponent has potions or ethers or elixirs, Rosa would need to rely on Cure to restore some HP, and she'd eventually run out of MP. And she'd then have to rely on !Pray, which doesn't work half the time and restores very little HP anyway.
Swords do more damage than arrows, so Basch would easily be able to inflict a lot of damage to her, while she'd spend her time casting cure on herself and shooting arrows at him who may or may not even hit him because she has crap basic physical skills at first. And if she does manage to hit him, it will only inflict minimal damage. And that's if she doesn't run out of arrows.
Even with basic stats, Basch would still have the upper hand on Rosa.