two sephiroths

Yeah I think Raistlin made my point better than I did.

It's unlikely that what you chase is a Sephiroth clone, for one very important reason. It looks like Sephiroth, pretty much end of story.

Woah.... You guyz got some good ideas 'bout Sephiroth. I always thought that the Sephiroth who stole the black materia was like a projection of Sephiroth or his consciousness. Since he said I have no more use for this body, I always thought that he meant he's not going to project himself anymore, since Cloud was already so close to the reuinon. God this is all giving me a headache:crying2:

[q=Sephy99]I always thought that the Sephiroth who stole the black materia was like a projection of Sephiroth or his consciousness.[/q]
Now where have I read this before?
Oh yeah.
[q=me]Yeah, I thought that Sephiroth created a 'manifestation' of his will in order to release Jenova and do whatever else. This power is a result of Sephiroth's Jenova cells and the time he spent in the Lifestream.

Basically, I've always believed that the Sephiroth who released Jenova, led Cloud around the world and (SPOILER) killed Aeris was, in fact, a powerful 'projection' of the real Sephiroth, who was entombed in that crystal in the North Cave. At one point it is said that Sephiroth can 'diffuse his will through the Lifestream'.
Sephiroth's powers, combined with Jenova's, allowed him to create a 'psychic shadow' which he could use to travel the world, transport Jenova, find the (SPOILER) black materia and interact with real people, all without having to leave the North Cave.
[/q]

So I'm not the only one who believes this outlandish notion... there may be something in it yet.

in realation to what big d said it could be seph controling someone elses body as a puppet

however the evidence is still more in favour of it being jenova in my opinion

I think if it was a projection, it would still be using Jenova cells to create it, just creating a physical being from thin air seems kinda far fetched.
I would go along with this theory if I thought Sephiroth was the one in control, which I very very don't

BD: it's not really that outlandish at all.

There's three main possibilities, in my mind, as to what the "Sephiroth" you chase is:

1. A successful Sephiroth clone. This one fits the plot and story better. It's the most obvious conclusion, but it lacks on the proof side.

2. Jenova. This one fits some of the elements. For one thing: Sephiroth "flies" away and drops something, and you have a fight with jenova. That "Sephiroth" being Jenova explains this much easier. Also, in the Northern Crater, with the Sephy killing all the failed clones, yet Jenova wanted to reabsord her cells(hence, the Reunion). So maybe she was absorbing her cells, and Cloud was just seeing what she wanted him to see, to keep the disguise working.
One flaw: How Jenova escaped from Shinra HQ if there was no working Sephiroth clone to help her.

3. BD's main theory, a Sephiroth manifestation. This also fits better some technical elements, such as Sephiroth going through walls/floors in the Temple of the Ancients.
Flaw: Immense amount of power to solidify manifestation, so might not really be readily believable.


Meh, there ya go.

[q=Raistlin]Flaw: Immense amount of power to solidify manifestation, so might not really be readily believable.
[/q]
Yeah, excellent point. I've been trying to think around this one somehow. Perhaps Seph was using his will to manipulate Jenova's headless (and presumably insensate) body, after it was sprung from Shinra HQ? He could use the body's powers of illusion and magic to fly, create an image/ replica of his real body, and so forth. At one point he says that he's learned to 'diffuse his will though the Lifestream', so he could probably send telepathic signals over long distances (which we know he did in controlling the Clones).

Another theory: it really IS a 'manifestation'... Sephiroth was using a 'Jenova illusion' to create an immaterial 'image' of his body, then using psychokinesis in conjunction with that illusion to manipulate swords, materia, Jenova's carcass, stuff in general.

Maybe Seph was using an 'immense amount of power' to create his manifestation... in the Temple of the Ancients, he says "I am becoming one with the Planet." Present tense. He's already begun the process, he's probably been gaining power and moving toward 'Godliness' for much the time he was in the Lifestream. That would give him a pretty decent amount of raw power.

The plot thickens... if it gets any worse, it's gonna solidify on us.

Hmm, something I recently noticed, which backs my theory (I'm sure I mentioned it somewhere) that they could infact be two seperate people who Cloud follow.
On the cargo ship, Cloud sees the Sephiroth-figure appear through the floor, to which it replies 'Who are you?', refering to Cloud. Now (as I recall) the only thing in that dialogue box was the text, with no 'name' attached to the top of it.
However later, in the Shinra basement, we meet 'Sephiroth'. It has his name attached to the dialogue box, and also he talks about remembering being in the basement, and also his music is playing, for the first time since the Kalm flashback.

Maybe this really is looking too much... or maybe Square intended it so that we could refer to the Sephiroth music as identifying with the 'real', or at least the memorable (one with his memories) Sephiroth.

A side note, I can think of three occurances where we meet Sephiroth and his music isn't playing: the cargo ship, Ancient Capital and at the Jenova Reuinion. Which is also the locations of all the Jenova fights, thus presuming that, in accordance to that theory, that this is Jenova.

That is a plausable theory, although it doesn't really go to explain much so I'll just keep it in mind till it's needed.
Again, why do people think Sephiroth would have any control over Jenova, there is absolutely no justification for it.
I wouldn't call Jenova's escape a flaw. Although I know I know there is dispute over how she did it, there are plenty of ideas for a solution.

Jenova Rebirth: Interesting theory, but, as Pheonix says, it doesn't really explain much. You chasing two Sephiroths isn't the most believable theory, but I'll think about it.

Big D: As Pheonix said, I don't believe Sephiroth controlled Jenova at all. Rather, if I'm arguing for the support of the manifestation theory, then I'd say he absorbed some of the power from the mako he was encased in for five years. Remember "Sephiroth's" plan? To absorb mako/Lifestream energy at its source. Maybe he could've absorbed some of the power from such a prolonged exposure. That also helps to explain how he was able to summon Meteor.

Where has everyone gotten the idea of the one winged angel Sephiroth to be called "Safer" Sephiroth. No where in the game it says that. If you press select while fighting him it simply says "Sephiroth"

I don't get some people. Like some people call the Gamecube "GCN" instead of just "GC" where did the "N" come from?

'Safer' is rumoured to have something to do with 'Seraph' - an angel of the highest order. Seraphim have six wings, just like 'Safer Sephiroth' would if you discounted his abnormal 'dark' wing.

As for 'GCN'... 'N' stands for Nintendo.
Possibly.

Quote:

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Originally posted by Sephiroth88

I don't get some people. Like some people call the Gamecube "GCN" instead of just "GC" where did the "N" come from?

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I guess it has the same point as PSX with the extra 'X' :/

And, after thinking about it, the 'other' Sephiroth could've broken Jenova out of her confinement, where she then takes on his form maybe.

Then again...

If we stick to the idea that Hojo released Cloud, it maybe plasuable that Hojo released Jenova also, for the very same reason...

Blarg.

Considering that Jenova's tank has been ripped, hacked and slahed to peices doesn't really fit with Hojo letting her loose. She was obviously forcibly extracted from that tank.

Sephiroth needed Cloud. Though Hojo had labled him a failure years before, I think it's safe to say that Sephiroth knew that Cloud turned out quite successful and could be a valuable asset to his cause, hence, after releasing Jenova, he set Cloud loose as well.

I'm all for the "Manifestation" theory as far as Sephiroth goes. But I still think that Sephiroth's unique way of being injected with Jenova cells and Mako (before birth) coupled with all those years he spent in the Lifestream could easily leave him more powerful than Jenova. There's just very little to suggest we aren't after Sephiroth the whole time.

My money's still on Cloud opening the tank.

We know you don't chase the real Sephiroth in the game. We know Jenova's power. We know the whole point of the reunion is to get Jenova back together. As far as I can see, there's very little to suggest you ARE chasing Sephiroth.

I still doubt the manifestation theory, creating solid mass out of will? Kinda hard to believe.