i think that whether abortion is "right" or not, depends on the circumstances, i think that its the woman in questions choice, cos at the end of the day, whether she has the baby or not, shes the one that has to live with her choice, either way.
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i think that whether abortion is "right" or not, depends on the circumstances, i think that its the woman in questions choice, cos at the end of the day, whether she has the baby or not, shes the one that has to live with her choice, either way.
...Hospitals would keep records to prevent it from happening, just as they keep records for any other procedure.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Aeris
Destai:
There are ways of aborting the pregnancy immediately after fertilization, so yes, it is possible.
In that case Id accuse anyone who has had several abortions over a given ammount of time as using abbortion to "sleep around".
My point more was, do you think if you support abortion that it's moral to force a 12 year old to be a mom just because she's had too many abortions? I think that's even more immoral than using abortions as birth control.
So do I, but allowing someone that young to end up in that kind of posiotion is also wrong. Unfortunatly, there are no easy answers. I think in many cases, the parents should have some acountability.Quote:
I think that's even more immoral than using abortions as birth control.
That's hardly fair. You can't control whether someone has sex or not, aside from barracading them in their room, which I think would count as abuse.
See the thing is, however you may view abortion, its very much a needed practice. And not just medical. I mean, what if a girl gets raped and then gets pregnant. is it right for us to just give her a pat on teh back and say oh well, live with it? No! that would be wrong.
I mean, i hate this argument because in the end, the two sides will never agree. Its always gonna be you either are for it or against it. And neither side will come to any type of agreement.
My thoughts on it, Abortion should definately be illegal after the 2nd trimester. the end.
well actually akira I have changed my stance on this gradually through time.. so saying that nothing will change by debating isn't entirely through.. thatt or I am really special :D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Aeris
Well the point would be, one should be responsible for their own actions. If they are warned repeatedly(most parents don't go around telling their daughter to be a "slut"). The hospital would warn them that they can't have so many abortions, etc. That is actually quite lenent... and I could actually aggree with it as long as the deadline and limit were small enough.Quote:
Originally Posted by Emerald Aeris
So therefor this girl would obviousally KNOW what would happen. Afterall I seriousally doubt birth control efforts would fail that many times in a row... not to mention they could just play abstinence after their last abortion that year till next year or whenever they get allowed another few abortions, just to be safe.
Pretty silly, Irresponsibility is not a reason to kill.
Sure you can. Curfews, making sure you know where they are at all times, ect. Granted it's not a perfect situation, but few things are. If you absolutly can't control a 12 year old, theres something wrong.Quote:
That's hardly fair. You can't control whether someone has sex or not, aside from barracading them in their room, which I think would count as abuse.
Actually, unless the mothers life is in danger, (or the fetus severly deformed), it is. As well it should be.Quote:
My thoughts on it, Abortion should definately be illegal after the 2nd trimester. the end.
"Well the point would be, one should be responsible for their own actions."
Like someone said before: a baby should never be used as punishment. That's horrible.
"So therefor this girl would obviousally KNOW what would happen."
Girls KNOW what's going to happen already. What is this? Do you honestly think people who know better don't get pregnant? You're being very naive. People get pregnant ALL the time who "KNOW what would happen". I don't even know what to say. It boggles my mind that you believe that telling people not to would actually work. Your idealism is sweet, but it would never, ever work.
"not to mention they could just play abstinence after their last abortion that year till next year or whenever they get allowed another few abortions, just to be safe."
But they wouldn't, because people are stupid and ignorant. Abortions aren't fun already, and in some cases it's still not a deterrent. Some girls are just irresponsible and can't control themselves. Sometimes they think stuff like if you have sex a certain way or at a certain time unprotected you can't get pregnant. Sometimes, I don't know. I know people who have kids who had no reason to not use protection, but they didn't and now they have a kid they don't want. What you're talking about does not reflect reality. It would not happen. And what about those who don't stop? They're punished with a child? "There, that'll show you to make poor choices and have deadbeat parents, 14 year old, raise this baby." No! That is so very very VERY wrong.
"Sure you can. Curfews, making sure you know where they are at all times, ect. Granted it's not a perfect situation, but few things are. If you absolutly can't control a 12 year old, theres something wrong."
So she has sex on her lunch break when she goes to school. You can't possibly argue that this is going to work. You have to know where she is? She could lie. She could runaway. Who knows! There is no garantee. It completely baffles me that you believe this. You can't teach a child 100%. It's IMPOSSIBLE. You're right, there IS something wrong if you can't control a 12 year old, but it's not necessarily wrong with the parents. Some children/people are just bad. It's in their nature, and you can't do anything about it. Personality is 50% nature and 50% nurture. Parents are only accountable for their child's actions to a certain degree. I don't think it's reasonable to apply that to this.
I didn't say it was a garantee, and I didn't say it was always the parents fault. But they do have some accountability for their children. This is a hard enough issue to debate without my points being misrepresented.Quote:
There is no garantee. It completely baffles me that you believe this.
I'd debate that, but this isn't the place.Quote:
Some children/people are just bad. It's in their nature, and you can't do anything about it.
"I didn't say it was a garantee, and I didn't say it was always the parents fault. But they do have some accountability for their children."
If accountibility doesn't imply complete fault, what does it mean then? If you're suggesting to make it law, you're saying that it's always their fault. Laws work in black and white. There is no grey area. That's why holding parents legally responsible for stuff like this is a bad idea.
Alright now I am not saying that it is punishment in that sense. I am saying it as the fact that they just simply did not listen. Punishment that I would look at is that if they break the rule, let them get the abortion and then make them sterile. THAT would be punishment. This is simply letting nature take its course.
Now as for not controling the child. My sister has been cause alot of trouble, mother suspects her of sleeping around. and she disappears from time to time. My sister is now fairly under control, although unrurly. Why? My parents brought in the police, have called juvie, and will put her in a correctional facitly if she doesn't get her act together... and now she is behaving fairly well, even if she won't speak to mother.
Usually when you use accountable it means full fault. But both the word "some" and the fact that their is a thing called partial responsibilty can mean that it isn't complete fault.
As for laws. Laws should never be black and white. Each and every case is different thus, laws shouldn't be black and white.
"Alright now I am not saying that it is punishment in that sense. I am saying it as the fact that they just simply did not listen."
I dunno what you're talking about here.
"Punishment that I would look at is that if they break the rule, let them get the abortion and then make them sterile. THAT would be punishment. This is simply letting nature take its course."
No, I think sterilizing young teens for poor judgement is a little horrible and excessive, to put it mildly.
"Now as for not controling the child. My sister has been cause alot of trouble, mother suspects her of sleeping around. and she disappears from time to time. My sister is now fairly under control, although unrurly. Why? My parents brought in the police, have called juvie, and will put her in a correctional facitly if she doesn't get her act together... and now she is behaving fairly well, even if she won't speak to mother."
That doesn't always work. Short of locking children up, children are going to misbehave and rebel.
"Usually when you use accountable it means full fault. But both the word "some" and the fact that their is a thing called partial responsibilty can mean that it isn't complete fault."
Not when you're dealing with law! It doesn't work like that.
"As for laws. Laws should never be black and white. Each and every case is different thus, laws shouldn't be black and white."
Well, they are. That's just how it works. That's why you have to be careful with what you think is wrong, and what you think should be illegal.
Well I wasn't saying we should sterilize them.. that would be excessive. I was using it as an example of a punishment. Because it is obviousally a punishment there. Allowing irresponsibility isn't the way to deal with it. It must be dealt with.
As for black and white laws.. most laws aren't black and white.. there are always loop holes, there is always another way to interepret. or at least there are in many cases.
And as for the punishment. I guess that is just how one looks at it. To me it isn't punishment... because the law, or what not didn't get her pregnant, She is the one responsible for that(and her Boyfreind or whomever she slept with). The law is just refusing to allow her to kill something, not a punishment, just a meeting of circumstances.