Time travel and the R=U theories (MASSIVE FRICKEN SPOILER WARNING)

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Originally Posted by Lionheart Griever

Ellone sent Squall and the rest of the group back in time to let Laguna see Raine for the last time, along with Squall actually having a family.

Other than that, I don't think that R=U theory is right. Just my opinion, of course!

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*confuddled* I've been reading all the messages, up to this one, 99! And I think you're all mad! I don't think Ellone sent Laguna bakc in time-I think by opening time up, the past was changed-in time compression, beofre they all went back to their correct times, they were able to right wrongs that had happened-Laguna was able to change his past, so, in fact, he DID marry Raine. There is evidence for this-When ypou see Laguna give Raine the ring, he looks like he did in the flashbacks. But when you see him stanind alone in the feild, he has some grey hair!

Anyhoo.......the game made sense when I finished it! Don't think 'bout it too much! :)

EDIT: Ithought Ultimecia drew Greiver fromSquall. I read somewhere that Greiver is the embodyment of all Squall respects, so she uses it against him, kinda to be ironic.

[qq]I don't think Ellone sent Laguna bakc in time[/qq]She didn't send anyone back in time, except for Squall and his friends. They weren't really "sent back in time", either - just their minds were. She can send someone's consciousness into the brain of a person in the past, so that they can 'eavesdrop' on past events.[qq]Laguna was able to change his past, so, in fact, he DID marry Raine. There is evidence for this-When ypou see Laguna give Raine the ring, he looks like he did in the flashbacks. But when you see him stanind alone in the feild, he has some grey hair!
[/qq]That's a flashback. When he stood by Raine's grave, he thought back to when they married. After all, he was away for 17 years. He'd never have known that Raine died giving birth to their son... so seeing her grave for the first time would bring back all kinds of memories. Time compression ended when Squall etc got home; no-one travelled into the past because of it, since the compression wasn't complete. A small team were able to go into the future, but that was all.:cool:

Well said about Ulty actually drawing greiver from Squall. Funny if theres a secret that allows squall and party to use greiver

i really think R=U is posible and u should accept it too maybe its hard to prove but in the end its a posibility

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Originally Posted by rieler

i really think R=U is posible and u should accept it too maybe its hard to prove but in the end its a posibility

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Yes it is a possibility, but that doesnt make it fact. In the end, it's up to the individual to decide whether they believe in R=U or not.

i know its not a fact its an opinion and its true if you say the theory its true or not for u on ur own its true whatever u chose and cant be denied by anyone

I wrote a rather big paper on this issue some time ago, which can be found here:

http://www.script-tease.net/kristian/

Sadly, two of the time loop diagrams were messed up, but if anyone really wants to know what they should look like, let me know.

Oh, and what Ellone did can be called sending people back to the past.
Just because their bodies weren't sent back, doesn't mean they didn't have the same kind of influence.
Just think of what Ultimecia was able to do!

As I see it, the past was never changed, not by Ulti, not by Ellone. Ultimecia sent her consciousness in the past (possessed Edea/Adel) to fine Ellone and kill the SeeD that were destined t destroy her. (because think of it, since Ulti is from the future, she KNOWS Squall and company will fight and defeat her, they're heroes after all) That failed. Squall and company STILL defeated her.

Ellone's attempts were not to causeRaine to marry Laguna (hich had already happened) but to make sure Laguna wasn't gone when Squall was born and Raine died. She too failed.

Why? Because of fate. FFVIII doesn't work with' parallel universes and paradoxes' If you timetravel your timetravelling wll CAUSE your present. If Squall and such hadn't been sent back in time, Laguna and company might very well have ded. (Their presence with Guardian forces improves Laguna's fighting. Relmember that he says patrol should be easy because 'the faeries are here'?) So the reason Laguna's stor went as it went was because Squall was there. Ellone's time travel didn't change anything, because, in a twisty way, it had already been done all those years ago.

As for R=U... I support the theory, but I know discussing it may convince some people but is still an oppinion. But still, exchanging oppinions is FUN, no?

edit: Oh yeah, someone mentioned that if R=U, shouldn't U die as soon as R is dead when you lose? Answer: Yeah. Just like Squall should vansh into thin air if Laguna dies in the early flash backs if Squall si Laguna's son (and we all believe THAT don't we?). A game over causes temporal paradoxes, and as this game seems to go with the 'you CAN'T cause those' theory, that means that in the PROPER story, you CAN'T get a game over... but that would make for a sucky game.

edit 2: Hmmm, interesting page that. Put a lot of thought and work into this. Never even thought of he Mausoleum thing, though it's circumstantial. (I do hope I spelled that right)

The past does never change.

Ellone says you can't change the past, and it doesn't get more straight forward than that.

An unchanging line of time also provides a perfect explanation for all time travelling in the game and such.

Hi, You can go crazy searching who is ultimecia and you would never know, cause the story was writed with that porpuse... but I want to tell Ultimecia is Rinoa jaja. The intro makes sense, all that stuff of " I´ll be waiting for you". Have you noticed that the ending movie where Squall gets crazy , is created with the finallity of confuse, why does he Cry ?, why the ultimecia flash shots ?, why rinoa in front of a throne ?, and... Why the odd image of squall with a Hole for a face ??!!, that really shocks me and make me forget about the rinoa issue. Yeah, Squall should have died in the first CD and he realized that in the end, Rinoa in the space was another move to confuse, jejej, I would like to know what do you think about Squall hole-for-face. !

Truly, I think it would add a lot of excitement to FFVIII if the R=U theory was in fact true. That Squall hallucinating part first made me consider it, and creeped me out when Rinoa's face started turning into Ultimecia's.

Plus, so many facts point to it. I don't know where I heard this but sorceresses live longer right? So if Squall was to die in the line of duty or something like that, Rinoa would have hated living without Squall. Maybe that would drive her to "hating SEED", considering the reason he might die in the future, if that happens might be because of dying in SEED.

Eventually, when she lives without her friends as they leave the world as well may force her to go a little over the top. And, you know how GF's make you lose your memory, well, she might forget them up until the time of the final battle.

Also, I have read somewhere else that the placing of Ultimecia's castle may also be a point to the R=U theory. Considering that that is where Squall and Rinoa made that promise that if they ever get lost, they meet eachother over there.

Who knows? I wish it was true though. That way, Squall would have a reason to kill Rinoa/ :p

Rubedo: IF you want to read how one has come to the assumption that sorceresses are immortal/have prolonged life, you'll find that I cover it in the link I posted above.

I don't know if this has been said or not, and if it was, kindly point me to the page (I read some of page 1, but that's all).

Anyway, In Ultimecia's age, they made a machine that could let you control someone in the past, much like Ellone's special ability, and Ultimecia was using that maching to control Edea, right? Why, if Ultimecia was really Rinoa, would she have those lizards attack her?

Don't tell me "memory loss," because even those with amnesia remember what they look like, and Rinoa, at that time, was at the age were your body doesn't make too many dramatical changes until you get old and wrinkly. I still think Ultimecia is just some random sorceress who went crazy, or possibly Matron (that was her name, right? Edea's real name).

there are many posibilities and someone shiuld ask square the real answer.....

Then again, I could see how Rinoa could be Ultimecia. I remember how she asked Squall about his ring, and if it had a name. Either she is, or they had a daughter who went insane, and never liked her parents, so she killed her mother and transformed her father into a Gaurdian Force so she could use him for even more power.

Yes, that must be it! I figured it out! MWAHAHAHAHAHA!!

*falls asleep*