Wonder how people didn´t notice this.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

One can not even proof Laguna and Raine were Squall´s fathers...

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Yes, we kind of can. It's called "Assuming the writer knew what he was doing when he wrote the story."


By the way, does anyone else find it a little... oh, I don't know... suspicious... that this "Bipper" person has a join date of yesterday... and is obviously not someone that is paying attention to the story of the game, either?

I don't know... I've got to say it's a little suspicious. Not that I'm hinting at anything. Obviously not.

You can read posts even before you register.At least he knows about the sorceress girls thingy.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
Originally Posted by The Anarchy Angel :
Grr, for goodness sakes! It isn't a desert becasue there is no sand, right, just cracked ground? But what we also have to remember is that time compression is still around, so it could just be a random place conjoured up by the last magic that exploded with Ultimecia. Personally, i think it just looks like the dried up dead looking flower field
Agree completely.It was burned by Galbadian Soldiers, flooded by water,suffer ice catastrophes and used by ancient Estharians to construct a small village.


Where do you get the idea that is was burned by Galbadian and suffered so much crap and finally some Estharians came along to build a small village?

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This theory is based on another theory of mine which is based on another theory.
You have to be patient to see how my theories were linked between them.I will prove strong theories with weak theories.Eventually you will understand this one.

Quote:

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the machine was created to imitate even her physical appearance.It was transformed at her image to deceive and confuse people.Not even Doc Odine recognizes it.


But since Dr Odine make the machine he didn't state his machine can do this and also if he is the creator of the machine, it make no sense that he can't recognize his own creation.

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It was Caraway who changed the machine´s appearance to look like Ellone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
Basically after the real Ellone get to the White Seed ship somehow a battle begins and Elle was taken hostage by Galbadia.Edea was at the ship and (already possessed) manage to give Ellone to Galbadia.
She was adopted by Caraway who changed her name to Rinoa.


Edea is the one that send Ellone to the ship and after the battle that you claim she give her to Galbadia? So why didn't she give her to Galbadia straightaway instead of sending her to a ship?

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As you heard Edea and Caraway were both possessed by X.
Edea just guided the ship and that way she were able to perform her plans.X wanna to deliver Elle to Caraway without people knowing Edea was possessed.Hence the plan.
Galbadians had the tecnology to made the locking sealing room at Caraways mansion and to change JME´s appearance .Edea not.

Quote:

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The general somehow obtained the machine and give it to the White Seed in Ellone´s place.


What do you mean by somehow? Dr Odine created the machine and it is in Esthar. And also, what make you think the White SeeD will believe that the general who took away Ellone the first time now give her back just like that? Dun you think the White SeeD will suspect something?

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The general don´t give it.He places ME in Ellone´s place to confuse them when they save her.
It´s like if Bowser creates a machine that imitates Daisy´s appearance and hides the true one somewhere on the castle.When Super Mario goes to SAVE her he will SAVE a machine without knowing it(And Daisy will still be arrested after that).

Quote:

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But Watt´s and Zone managed to free Rinoa.


Why will two random person pop up in the General's mansion and free Rinoa?

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Let me help you to guess.
The Watts and Zone we see in the game were not the true ones.
After Watt´s and Zone´s fathers died they were adopted by the woman who lives near Timber maniacs.These guys then tooked their place.This undercover can not be break.They knows Deling´s real plans unlike Zone and Watt´s fathers.But their true identity can not be revealed to Deling.That would be very bad.
So,who were they?

Hint1:Zone has pains on his stomach too much times isn´t ?I really believe this is used to undercover another deficiency of him.
Hint2:Zone dresses blue.Watts dresses a bandage on his head.
Hint3:They imitate Galbadian Soldiers too well don´t they?The Galbadians can´t really tell the difference.
Hint4:Who do you think would risk his life to save Ellone?
(this one answers your question).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
The sorceress orders Raijin and Fujin to stay at the hotel.That way,the sorceress prevents Elone from sending the conscience of the citizens to the "orphanage" time.She also order the soldiers to knock out people if they sleep


Is a hotel only place in the world you can sleep? How about a nice comfy bench?
Is there proof to prove no one can't sleep in Balamb during that time?

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I had to research more about this.
I believe the sorceress don´t wanna people to see the orphanage time.
But maybe she is just worried with events happening on the bedroom or the "main" room of Edea´s house.She is not worried with events that happened at the beach or the flower field.
And maybe X knows Ellone would perform her ability at middle day when no one sleeps.
And neither the sorceress nor Raijin nor Fujin nor Seifer knows that Squall and company would be able to enter the city.They weren´t supposed to.She plans not to let them in.And how can she guess that Zell would purposely go to his room to sleep.I really believe Zell knows about the sorceress true plan and purposedly go to his room to rest.It was unpredictable because she knows Zell would never do that.His room is sacred to him and he don´t wanna you in.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
However Ellone somehow(I don´t understand how up to this day) enable the soldiers at the station to the past.One of them see the flower field and the other was in the body of his grandma


How do you know they see the flower field and grandma thingy when you dun understand?

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It appears on the game.

Quote:

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How do you know they see the flower field and grandma thingy when you dun understand?


Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
Rinoa meets Caraway at her childhood.
But Caraway "Killed" Julia and sent Elle to Winhill


You say Caraway caught Ellone/Rinoa in the White SeeD ship earlier and now you say Rinoa meet Caraway at childhood? So if he already capture Rinoa before the White SeeD ship incident why did he release her to Winhill only to recapture her again?

IMPT NOTE: Ellone is first at Winhill then to orphanage then to the White SeeD ship.

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It goes like this:
Julia marries Caraway and he takes care of Ellone along with Julia.
Caraway "kills" Julia and sent Ellone to Winhill.
READ THIS:
X needs Odine´s genius brain to research Ellone´s mind.He is the one who knows more about these things.
So X possess Adel to go to Winhill to look for Ellone.
To easy Adel´s task,X possess a monster which becomes General Caraway.This monster is interested in Ellone so he approaches Julia.X also wanna to transform Julia into sorceress Edea.That´s about it.
Laguna saves Elle and sent her to the orphanage(Sorceress Edea goes there meanwhile).
Elle is sent to a ship due to her powers.
Edea guides this Ship.
Then the Galb´s take Elle hostage.
Elle meets with Caraway again and is locked in his house long time.
Since Odine had already researched her X only needs to seal her powers forever.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
Using some sort of mechanism she was sucked into the prision while underground.
Deling bring her to life using some magic and then she became....(try to guess).


Why did they suck her and what soft of magic can bring someone to life? Why didn't anyone use it to bring Raine or the Unknown King to life or the president himself back to life?

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Maybe she was not even killed.It was Media manipulation.
She probably was on a sleeping state like Rinoa.
She need to be sent to prision because this is a facility witch has the technology to transform Julia into Edea.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar:
Edea ,Rinoa,Quistis,Selphie were sorceresses.This means they were female Propagators
(the True origin and nature of Sorceress).
Seifer,Squall,Zell and Irvine were True Knights.This means they were male Propagators(the True origin and nature of True Knights).
Ulti=Edea is a propagator and can possess propagators


Why are they propagator? (And why aren't they PuPu instead? he is so CUTEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!)

You also stated that the characters evolve from Shumi and now they are propagator? So Shumi evolve into propagator? It doesn't make sense. Pls kindly explain.

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I didn´t said that Shumis evolved to the characters.I said that they evolved to monsters and then to Deling and Caraway.

I argued on another thread that we can see how Edea looks like a Propagator on the 3rd disc.
Also,there were 8 Propagators distributed in 4 pairs.
These characters were 8 and can be distributed on 4 man-women pairs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bipper

Sure it is just a theory, but imo ripping apart the game and every little detail only makes it greater.

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Actually, I prefer to enjoy the story as shown.. Obsession does not sound like an enjoyable time to me. Anyway, the point is.. Most of his theory has no merit with the actual details of the game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD

By the way, does anyone else find it a little... oh, I don't know... suspicious... that this "Bipper" person has a join date of yesterday... and is obviously not someone that is paying attention to the story of the game, either?

I don't know... I've got to say it's a little suspicious. Not that I'm hinting at anything. Obviously not.

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Quoted for.. Hell, it all just seems really off.

How can I made my signature pictures appear little?

Change the size in a picture editting program.. And this has nothing to do with the topic on hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

This theory is based on another theory of mine which is based on another theory.
You have to be patient to see how my theories were linked between them.I will prove strong theories with weak theories.Eventually you will understand this one.

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What in the world of Yevon, this is not answering, this is just playing with words to show that you have answer but you didn't.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

It was Caraway who changed the machine´s appearance to look like Ellone.

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From the game, we know that not many can understand Esthar's technology so meaning not many can even understand the use of the machine not to mentioning changing it. And also, the machine is ONLY avaliable in the FUTURE.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dr Odine

It may only be a toy
right now, but in ze time of Ultimecia, it iz an impressive working
machine! Which means there iz a machine which imitates Ellone's power.
It iz I who made ze first model of zat machine. I named ze machine
'Junction Machine Ellone'! It iz a vonderful thing to know that my
invention is used in ze future!

---

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

As you heard Edea and Caraway were both possessed by X.
Edea just guided the ship and that way she were able to perform her plans.X wanna to deliver Elle to Caraway without people knowing Edea was possessed.Hence the plan.
Galbadians had the tecnology to made the locking sealing room at Caraways mansion and to change JME´s appearance .Edea not.

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Like I say, she can just secretly send her to Caraway, what is the point of making up the White SeeD and the fight?

How in the world do you know Galbadians had the technology when a 3 year old can see that from the game that Esthar is far more advance than Galbadians and since Dr Odine is the one that make the machine, only Odine himself understand the machine. So not any Tom, Dick or Harry can modifiy the machine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

The general don´t give it.He places ME in Ellone´s place to confuse them when they save her.It´s like if Bowser creates a machine that imitates Daisy´s appearance and hides the true one somewhere on the castle.When Super Mario goes to SAVE her he will SAVE a machine without knowing it(And Daisy will still be arrested after that).

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You still dun get it? HOW DO CARAWAY OBTAIN THE MACHINE WHEN IT IS IN ESTHAR AND BEING LOCKED IN ODINE LAB? And if Caraway stole it, Dr Odine will have realize it stolen, but why didn't he make a big fuss about it when he was talking about the machine. Also, there is no telling in the game that the machine is stolen so you are just saying this base on your imagination.

White SeeD didn't go SAVE machine Ellone but you say the general GAVE the machine back to white SeeD. So back to the original question, dun you think a person with an average IQ will suspect something fishy?

Quote:

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Let me help you to guess.
The Watts and Zone we see in the game were not the true ones.
After Watt´s and Zone´s fathers died they were adopted by the woman who lives near Timber maniacs.These guys then tooked their place.This undercover can not be break.They knows Deling´s real plans unlike Zone and Watt´s fathers.But their true identity can not be revealed to Deling.That would be very bad.
So,who were they?

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How did you get the idea of being adopted by the woman in Timber maniacs? Like I say in my previous posts, Pls explain with CONCERTE PROOF AND LOGICAL EXPLANATION.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Hint1:Zone has pains on his stomach too much times isn´t ?I really believe this is used to undercover another deficiency of him.

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And I believe Zone is actually Kefka...PROVE IT!!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Hint2:Zone dresses blue.Watts dresses a bandage on his head.

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Cyan dress blue and Locke wear a bandage on his head. So, they are RELATED too???

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Hint3:They imitate Galbadian Soldiers too well don´t they?The Galbadians can´t really tell the difference.

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Anyone can imitate that WELL when almost your WHOLE BODY is covered with armour and no one can see your face and all you have to do is "no sir" and "yes sir". So when Selphie and gang went to the missile base and go undercover as Galbadian Soldiers, didn't they do as well as Zone and Watts? So are you saying those that imitate Galbadian Soldiers are inter-related by the stars in the galaxy?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Hint4:Who do you think would risk his life to save Ellone?
(this one answers your question).

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Let me guess, Cloud!!! No,,,Sephiroth...nah...arghhh....this is mind blowing. I know!!!! Kuja!!!!! Kuja wanna take a bride!! And no, they aren't Laguna nor Wards, not by the way you prove in with THAT kind of evidence...and is Laguna only one in the game allow to wear blue and Ward only one that can wear bandage? So later you will be saying whoever that have brown hair is Squall?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I had to research more about this.
I believe the sorceress don´t wanna people to see the orphanage time.
But maybe she is just worried with events happening on the bedroom or the "main" room of Edea´s house.She is not worried with events that happened at the beach or the flower field.
And maybe X knows Ellone would perform her ability at middle day when no one sleeps.
And neither the sorceress nor Raijin nor Fujin nor Seifer knows that Squall and company would be able to enter the city.They weren´t supposed to.She plans not to let them in.And how can she guess that Zell would purposely go to his room to sleep.I really believe Zell knows about the sorceress true plan and purposedly go to his room to rest.It was unpredictable because she knows Zell would never do that.His room is sacred to him and he don´t wanna you in.

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You still didn't answer the question but came up with a new question, why do you BELIEVE Zell know Edea's plan? Pls explain with logic and concrete proof.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

It appears on the game.

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Oh ya? so how do the SOLDIERS SEE THE FLOWER FIELD AND GET INTO THE BODY OF WHOEVER GRANDMA and no i didn't see any soldiers of having image of seeing flower field and get into body of his Grandma.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

It goes like this:
Julia marries Caraway and he takes care of Ellone along with Julia.
Caraway "kills" Julia and sent Ellone to Winhill.
READ THIS:
X needs Odine´s genius brain to research Ellone´s mind.He is the one who knows more about these things.
So X possess Adel to go to Winhill to look for Ellone.
To easy Adel´s task,X possess a monster which becomes General Caraway.This monster is interested in Ellone so he approaches Julia.X also wanna to transform Julia into sorceress Edea.That´s about it.
Laguna saves Elle and sent her to the orphanage(Sorceress Edea goes there meanwhile).
Elle is sent to a ship due to her powers.
Edea guides this Ship.
Then the Galb´s take Elle hostage.
Elle meets with Caraway again and is locked in his house long time.
Since Odine had already researched her X only needs to seal her powers forever.

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You still didn't quite answer the question, why do Caraway send her to Winhill when he already capture her. And if he send her to Winhill only to capture by Adel, why didn't he just send her to Esthar straight away?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Maybe she was not even killed.It was Media manipulation.
She probably was on a sleeping state like Rinoa.
She need to be sent to prision because this is a facility witch has the technology to transform Julia into Edea.

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Now you say she MAYBE isn't killed????? You just keep changing your theory here and there by "I believe" or all this stuff.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I didn´t said that Shumis evolved to the characters.I said that they evolved to monsters and then to Deling and Caraway.

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Shumi evolve to monsters so now shumi is a MONSTER. MONSTER cannot evolve, only Shumi evolve. so monster cannot evolve into Deling or Caraway.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

I argued on another thread that we can see how Edea looks like a Propagator on the 3rd disc.
Also,there were 8 Propagators distributed in 4 pairs.
These characters were 8 and can be distributed on 4 man-women pairs.

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And there is five main character in FF V meaning they are the Power Rangers? I dun see any link of your theory and the 8 propagators. And how do you know they have different sex? Pls Prove it.

And also:

What about the shooting star question?

What about the Rinoa appearance is not Ellone but you later say Rinoa appearance is Ellone?

Also, I have proved that "X" is actually Yevon/Hyne and FF VIII and FFX is inter related unless you have some backings that say it is not. :D

What shooting star question?
Let me explain this.Understand this one for all.
When Rinoa splits into many Rinoas these Rinoas were a younger Rinoa(hair grows you know?).These younger Rinoas looked like Ellone.Clear?
And X is not Hyne.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

In the beggining of the game Ellone tries to find her lover Squall.She wanna to see shooting stars with him at the flower field

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This is what you say in one of your posts. So, how do you know that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Rinoa´s appearance is not equal to Ellone´s

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This is what was stated earlier.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

What I am saying is that if you look at each splitting (without considering the clothes) you will see they are equal to the picture of Ellone. It´s not only the "short hair".Everything is equal

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This is what was stated later. Now you say Rinoa's appearance is equal to Ellone.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Let me explain this.Understand this one for all.
When Rinoa splits into many Rinoas these Rinoas were a younger Rinoa(hair grows you know?).These younger Rinoas looked like Ellone.Clear?

---

And this is what is stated later on. You say Rinoa's appearance is not Ellone and now you go back on your words. I notice you just keep changing stuff here and there by "I believe" and making riddles.

Here is some little info I got from the game script:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by GAME SCRIPT

In order for Ultimecia to exist in this time, she must take over
ze body of a sorceress from ze present. But ze machine must have a
limit. Ultimecia probably needs to go back further in time to achieve
time compression. Only Ellone can take her back further into ze past.
Zat iz why she iz desperately seeking her. We must take advantage of
Ellone's power. There are 2 sorceresses in our time. Sorceress Rinoa
and Sorceress Adel. Of ze two, Adel has not awaken yet. Once
regeneration is completed, neither Laguna not I will be safe. Sorceress
Adel is probably in ze process of awakening inside of Lunatic Pandora.
Ultimecia will want to possess Adel

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It is clearly stated that Ultimecia can only possess sorceress, so can you explain why since you make the statement(stated below) that Edea which is Ulti try to possess Squall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Our heros would stay there and (already possessed ) many hundreds of years later they would rule over the Galbadia continent using Timber as their capital.That´s what Edea plans

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And if you want to say this...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Ulti=Edea is a propagator and can possess propagators.

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I am a human and Xaven(Sorry, if I keep using you as an example but your name is just so easy to remember and come in mind all the time. :D ) is also a human. Does that mean I can possess him?

And in the game it never suggest that Edea is a propagator or anything, you just based in on your own imagination. If you want to back up with the hand theory, you will have to first answer the questions that is post on your other thread. And lastly, what about the others, in what sense do they look like propagator?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Future Esthar

Believe-me,Caraway managed to make it look like they had different ages.

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You say Caraway do something with the age and now you say...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Future Esthar

But weren´t them about the same age?
If this is true and Selphie is at its young,Edea should be at her´s 80´s
And Squall at its 60´s
And Quistis at her 40´s
Or something near that.
To explain this,let´s assume Julia is Edea.And Ulti is Julia(as i posted on another topic)
This means that Edea is...
Then she performs time compression.
But we know there is a time loop there in the end.
I will argue till the end on that topic in which i talk about time compression.
I will argue that TC was not supposed to end,that TC never happened at Lunatic Pandora and the first signal of time compression in Ulti´s time would be a geological catastrophe caused by the Lunar Cry in the continent.
The fact that TC ended was an ilusion from Ultimecia.
That big mess we see in the final battle was not Time Compression.Ulti deceived you well here.What smart she is.
Since the world of FF8 was already compressed it´s easy to see how do they have the same age.
Ulti even manipulated her own life in Galbadia (different state of present?)

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TIME COMPRESSION is the culprit. So what is there to do with Caraway?

And how do you prove X is not Hyne/Yevon?
Some points to add, do you notice that when Griever is defeated, he got turned into a small black ball which is pretty similar to Yu Yevon when he go around possessing Aeons. Yevon is just using the same trick again.

Finally, the name is UNKNOWNS and not UNKNOWS. I am taking this seriously. :mad2:

At the Final FMV what if when Rinoa finds Squall he is dead, then she would live in greif and insanity.Think of the similarities and opposites rinoa in the beginning is seen in a flurry of white flowers and is seen with white wings(a.k.a. angel wings) yet ultimecia too hass wings(a.k.a. hell's angel wings) that are black the hair is the same the appearance is way different except the eyes. think of adel she wasn't born like that she was possesed by an earlier sorceress or sorcerer like Hyne quote" Sorceress Rinoa...Hyne's descendent" she was torn bye insanity and changed, bodie and mind.............Just think about the possibilities then you'll understand

Rinoa is the child of Julia and Caraway they named that child Rinoa
Ellone was born before Caraway and Julia married
no offense but pay atention tho the third dream sequence and ask Kiros all options

Don't double post, please. --foa

Seriously. I think Future must take a few "Purple Butterfly" pills before he sits down to play FFVIII.

Hence, he hallucinates, and comes up with all these baseless, moronic theories.

That's my theory.

Yep, thats right - I was created only yesterday and there for have no idea about anything to do with final fantasy. -_- Seriously, I was just looking around for info on final fantasy and stumbled here. Joined up - and I am pleased to say that i really do like it here - sorry if that bugs anyone :)

Anyways, What i was commending Furture on was a well done job at sticking to what he belives. Working his theories around other peoples theories and facts. In a game like this where so many different things are happening, and so many creative minds are working on it - I cannot belive that the game has anyone ending. Sure we all see the same images, but its how we precive them that counts. Mabey it was all a dream of clouds? Prehapse Cid is more than he appears - how will we ever know all people can post is biased complaints, and such. I admit i may have missed a post or two while I was skimming, but most of the rebuttles seemed like garbage to me - no real offence is intended here.

To all those who just bicker and point to me it seems like those who said the world was flat. There is always somthing going on behind the scenes, good games are not made lightly. How the authors and artists depicted the game is not always what we see. Symbolism is always obscured when a game goes from one crew to another - I have been working on my own projects which evolve with other's creative input.

Simply being a smart ass and Saying that both Cloud and Squall have abnormal swords so they must be the same person - really doesn't do much but add heat to a simple debate. The ability to open our minds and express intelligence and interpetations are two very important human gifts. (Both intelligence and interpetations are very different mind you)

I really do enjoy this theory as a lot of it seems to click. I appreciate Futures post because it is giving me the motivation to take a second look at a game that I thought was so simple. Square did too good of a job on this game (IMO) where they blended so much symbolism and allowed your mind to ride along with a very simple story. It really brought the game from the Movie style of FFVII to a more subjective video game that allows for people whom like diging - to dig :)

Bipper GOEs

who actually lets these people post these baseless utterly crap theories. why can't you make up your mind future? not to long ago i think you were on about julia been ultimicia based on the fact that there was a piano in her castle... your theories are something like what one of those stereo typical people living on the streets come up with about the goverment or aliens or whatever... and i was just playing final fantasy 8 myself yesterday and i was at the part where rinoa is in space when ultimicia posses her there is no ellone there and its just an effect of showing rinoa in a disjointed way

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bipper

Yep, thats right - I was created only yesterday and there for have no idea about anything to do with final fantasy. -_-

---

You completely missed the point. In any event, I apologize for suggesting you were a mule account of our resident conspiracy theorist.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bipper

Anyways, What i was commending Furture on was a well done job at sticking to what he belives. Working his theories around other peoples theories and facts.

---

You don't "work around" facts. They're impenetrable walls of God-reinforced Adamantium.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bipper

In a game like this where so many different things are happening, and so many creative minds are working on it - I cannot belive that the game has anyone ending. Sure we all see the same images, but its how we precive them that counts. Mabey it was all a dream of clouds? Prehapse Cid is more than he appears - how will we ever know all people can post is biased complaints, and such. I admit i may have missed a post or two while I was skimming, but most of the rebuttles seemed like garbage to me - no real offence is intended here.

To all those who just bicker and point to me it seems like those who said the world was flat. There is always somthing going on behind the scenes, good games are not made lightly. How the authors and artists depicted the game is not always what we see. Symbolism is always obscured when a game goes from one crew to another - I have been working on my own projects which evolve with other's creative input.

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What you're failing to acknowledge here is that the story of the game is a written work. It had a human creator. A creator with an idea. An intent. And they created this story based on that and used the story itself to convey that intent. That's what writers do.

When symbolism is in play, the writer conveys that by using an aspect of that symbolism to get the intent across, whether it's just a name, or a theme, or an event incorporated into the storyline.

VIII works with a good bit of Christian religious symbolism. Rinoa represents that which is good and so she has an Angel theme (her big white feathery wings, her ultimate weapon, Shooting Star, the wing design on the back of her outfit, her Angel Wing limit break, etc.). Ultimecia represents that which is evil, and so has a dark Angel theme (black spiny wings, an attack called "Hell's Judgement," etc.).

Seifer and Squall also play into the symbolism. One of them wears a lightly-colored coat brimmed with darker shades at the collar and within, while the other wears a dark coat brimmed with white at the collar.

Further, Seifer wears crosses on the sleeves of his coat, just as the Teutonic Knights wore crosses on their mantles. Further still, his name is of German origin, as were the Knights.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bipper

Simply being a smart ass and Saying that both Cloud and Squall have abnormal swords so they must be the same person - really doesn't do much but add heat to a simple debate.

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You do realize that what you just said is pretty much entirely what Future's been doing this entire time? Look at the "Rinoa splitting into Ellone" thing. "They both have dark hair, they're both girls, and when those translucent doubles of Rinoa appear, it's hard to see the full length of her hair, making it look shorter like Ellone's, so they must be the same person."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bipper

I really do enjoy this theory as a lot of it seems to click.

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How? It requires ignoring everything that the game outright tells and/or shows to us and requires assuming that the writer failed to convey his intent on every level.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bipper

admit i may have missed a post or two while I was skimming, but most of the rebuttles seemed like garbage to me - no real offence is intended here.

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You certainly missed more than a post or two to give this statement...

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Originally Posted by bipper

There is always somthing going on behind the scenes

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Maybe there is just too much of a something going on behind the scenes from his theory.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bipper

I appreciate Futures post because it is giving me the motivation to take a second look at a game that I thought was so simple

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You need more than a second look, I am quite certain....

Yes it all does seem strange I admit. I can't say that I can stand here and belive everything that he is saying 100%. But it is his theory.

Nothing is wrong with that - bottom line.

Sorry here for my lack of knowing how to quote correctly - i will work on this when i dont feel like i will get "fried" for making a mistake...

Mr Squall said:

Quote:

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You don't "work around" facts. They're impenetrable walls of God-reinforced Adamantium

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Well here we go with what i have been saying all along. We don't know the facts. What we know is what we were told - that is fact so far. But it was once a fact that the world was flat. It was once a fact that the solar system rotated around the earth. This is because people just went with what they heard.

From what I have seen here was people finding a whole in Future's theory - Ok so the Earth isn't a perfect sphere... Well?

Future is merely walking beyond what he knows and his exploring other possibilites. While I do admit it to be a little gullish of him to title the forum (Wonder how people didn´t notice this.)

Sure he gets defensive here too - can ya blame the guy. When everyone jumps down his throat over posting theories.

I know certain people don't like em and yadda dah - well - then don't post. If you have no intrest your not gonna give it a chance. See, I even take a step and commend him for sticking with a theory and seeing how it could work - and now i am getting the same raction. /shrug

IMO this is the reason i would never post on forums before now. I am sure you seen one thing in the game. Hell so many people swear that squall and seifer are gay - whatever floats your rainboat i guess. I am not gonna jump out and call the guy an idiot and anyother words i can remember from the third grade. thus the theory of open mindedness.

I can tell you straight up that I have some buddies who are like that - you explain the significance of speroths name corralating with the galaxy and such and they tell you your full of bull.

Bottom line is i dont expect everyone to aggree - then the world would still be flat. I just want to see some open minded posts and such.

The post by unkowns saying that prehaps there is too much going on behind the scenese is just the small non sence post that is not backed up that i have been talking about. Personally, I would like to see some facts and evidence backing up your rebuttle besides nah nah nah boo boo.... That whole last post got nothing accomplished besides some minor bickering at me. I guess I must of offended you too by having an opinion. The world is a small place with minimal facts.

Mr Squall, I did very much appreciate your post :) You supported your last ideal very well. However, I would just like to add is that the story that gets burned on the gold cd - is not all the writer's story. I just know this from working on a couple old school muds, and a current game that there is a _TON_ of additions and deltions going on all the time.

Prehapse there was a scene in the story where the author wanted to develope the characters past even more and connect some of these dots - but it never made it bacause of all the work that would be entailed or because they wanted us to have somthing to play with.

From what I hear - square loves the fan base to talk about these things, and to dig into the game. IT creates Fanficts and generates a whole sub culture of creativity off of one game. I dunno bout you but if i ever inspire that kind of game - i would be infinately happier than with a game with a decent storyline, graphix, etc.

Also what i was replying to before - was when people were saying that Seifer and Squall had blonde hair so they are related - that was not even remotley ment in a productive light - it was a stab at the fact that Future's theory has to do with the spit Rinoas. If you do look too, it does seem that different sprites are used and its nto pixel shaded/filtered - but i can only specualate as i have never seen the game on a development level.

See somthing like that a designer would do and see what he means, then we see it and we are like wow - multiple Rinoa's. Even when you look at the clothes that squall wears vs seifer. The hero wears black while the villan wears white wit a cross none the less /shrug i dunno where to go with that, but i am sure it was discussed or thought up and did not just happen with the assumption that it would not be noticed.

Woe - alright well I am gonna go nurse the carpel tunnel and head out..

Lates,
Bipper GOEs