you never know mate that could happen in an FF world and hay it is one of the best ideas yet......lol :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolts
you never know mate that could happen in an FF world and hay it is one of the best ideas yet......lol :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolts
http://www.script-tease.net/kristian/Quote:
Anyway, In Ultimecia's age, they made a machine that could let you control someone in the past, much like Ellone's special ability, and Ultimecia was using that maching to control Edea, right? Why, if Ultimecia was really Rinoa, would she have those lizards attack her?
Don't tell me "memory loss," because even those with amnesia remember what they look like, and Rinoa, at that time, was at the age were your body doesn't make too many dramatical changes until you get old and wrinkly. I still think Ultimecia is just some random sorceress who went crazy, or possibly Matron (that was her name, right? Edea's real name).
PS: Edea was her real name, not MAtron, which is just a "nickname" like "mummy".
Also, Edea cannot be Ultimecia because at the end of the game Edea is not a sorceress, while Ultimecia is.
excellent is all that somes that link up and i feal you mabe right.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
Or how 'bout R=T=A=G=Y=U. Over many years, she shows her multiple personalities to help other people save their worlds. Then, her MPD gets the best of her, she goes insane, and wreaks havoc over time itself :radred:.
Okay, now I'm just waisting space here. I still say that anything's possible, and SquEnix is not going to give away the answer, as long as it keeps people occupied. Probably not even after people stop caring.
By the way, that whole thing would mean Rinoa = Terra = Aeris = Garnet = Yuna = Ultimecia (not in that particular order). I know there are the ones in other FF games, but I don't remember their names.
---EDIT---
Forgot about Garnet, sorry.
no theres a theory worth its weight in salt! thats a great idea, i realy like this one. i think where on to somthing! *run hands to gether expectantly*Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolts
And what we're saying is indeed 'memory loss' And Rinoa was only what, 17, 18 years old. And Ultimecia is a few hundred years down the line (she's got a narrower face, white hair, she changed somewhat), so I think that's plenty for Ultimecia not to consider 'hey, this random girl might in fact be ME from the past.' I mean, it's not the first thing on your mind really.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jolts
Ultimecia is one of Squall and Rinoas progeny, that is what i believe.
Another Theory:
Griver is actually the mutated version of Angalo(sp cant rember thename) rinoa's pet dog.....
Angelo, just remember that his name is "angel" with an 'o'.
However, I don't see that happening...Angelo was a dog, Griever is a lion. If Rinoa/Ultimecia did that to the poor dog, then she deserves every bit of torture she gets!
it was a joke :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Jolts
That little girl Squall saves from getting hit by a train...yeah, that's Ultimecia :lol:. If it wasn't a girl, then the girl that was with the little boy Squall saved.
By the way, that's a side-quest. I can't remember when it's available, but I've done it at least once.
Yes, you did. I will now do my iconoclastic thing:Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Bahamut
"Consider also that Ultimecia is called "Artemisia" in some translations."
Which translations? This is the first I've heard of this. The only person I REALLY consider cannonical when it comes to names is the person who named the character, not "some translation".
"What is the opposite of dying in peace?"
Dying with unresolved issues. This is a theme that's fairly big in mythology throughout the world, and from what I've gathered, it's also fairly prevalent in Shinto, one of Japan's native religions. If you don't rest in peace, you become a ghost. This isn't a suggestion that the soceress has improper long life, it just means she'll be troubled in the afterlife.
"Hyne, the first sorceress"
Whawhowha? When does the game call Hyne a sorceress? Furthermore, Hyne by YOUR definitions of who he is CAN'T be a sorceress simply because he is identified as male by your document. Sorceress is the feminine form of the word "sorcerer", which is specifically masculine (there is no such thing as a neutral gender designation in English with the exception of the word "person"). Hyne CAN'T be the first sorceress.
"This entire argument shows that sorceress immortality is possible"
It'd be better to use the phrase "eternally long life" here. Mortiality means you CAN die. Immortality means you can NOT die. Sorceresses can clearly die. Lifespan isn't suggested at either way though.
"when combining the information from the Japanese version and the European version, you learn that Ultimecia actually "draws" Griever from Squall's mind there and then. So either Griever was a GF junctioned to Squall all along, or she created him there and then based on the images in Squall's head."
I have no criticism for this, actually. I just wanted more people to see it because it's not a well known thing, and is FIERCELY debated over.
"Several hundred years of insanity can twist a person quite drastically"
But in terms of overall facial structure? Facial structure doesn't change without reconstructive surgery. If you allow for that possibility, then Ultimecia could be ANYONE. Ultimecia could be a GUY if you want to allow for that.
"However, we know time compression is activated in "the far past""
IIRC, Time compression is Ultimecia compressing the time between her present (the future) and the past that can only be reached by Ellone. It's technically "activated" from the future, and less technically activated from both the past AND the future.
"Rinoa and Ultimecia stand next to each other meaning their bodies could not be considered one"
You need to watch the Back To The Future series, buddy.
"the event of the orphanage is in the past, and since she travels to it, timecompression cannot exist."
I doubt this has any bearing, but this point can be argued against simply by saying that the orphanage exists within compressed time, as it exists within the timeframe that time is compressed in.
On a final note, your explanation of the time loop was a monstrosity. I read it five times and couldn't understand it. If you did do a better job of it, I wouldn't mind seeing the "correct" version that you mentioned before. Feel free to PM me with it.
The german one for instance. The spanish one too, I believe. Honestly, just Google Search "Artemisia Final Fantasy 8" and you can see for yourself what versions call her that.Quote:
Which translations? This is the first I've heard of this. The only person I REALLY consider cannonical when it comes to names is the person who named the character, not "some translation".
Firstly, I have to remind that the sorceress lifespan doesn't rest solely on this line.Quote:
Dying with unresolved issues. This is a theme that's fairly big in mythology throughout the world, and from what I've gathered, it's also fairly prevalent in Shinto, one of Japan's native religions. If you don't rest in peace, you become a ghost. This isn't a suggestion that the soceress has improper long life, it just means she'll be troubled in the afterlife.
Secondly, I have recently learned that in the japanese version, it says "in order for a sorceress to die, she must first give up her powers".
No mention of "in peace".
And although this yet again does not prove sorceress long lifespan in itself, it can be coupled with the fact that Hyne was immortal/had really long lifespan to make a pretty good case for it.
Looks like you haven't been checking your Tutorial enough.Quote:
Whawhowha? When does the game call Hyne a sorceress? Furthermore, Hyne by YOUR definitions of who he is CAN'T be a sorceress simply because he is identified as male by your document. Sorceress is the feminine form of the word "sorcerer", which is specifically masculine (there is no such thing as a neutral gender designation in English with the exception of the word "person"). Hyne CAN'T be the first sorceress.
Here's a tip: next time you play FF8, check the information section in the tutorial, and read what it says about Hyne.
You might also want to check out what a certain White SeeD in the White SeeD ship tells some children.
I think you'll find that Hyne is in fact the first sorcerESS, and the following sorceresses have weaker version of his power(this would be another appropiate moment to remind you that Hyne certainly could live for a VERy long time).
You're right there, and I'll try and have that edited, even though I make it clear that a sorceress CAN die.Quote:
It'd be better to use the phrase "eternally long life" here. Mortiality means you CAN die. Immortality means you can NOT die. Sorceresses can clearly die. Lifespan isn't suggested at either way though.
As for lifespan, I've already mentioned that several times before.
Oh come on, they don't look that different, even you must admit that.Quote:
But in terms of overall facial structure? Facial structure doesn't change without reconstructive surgery. If you allow for that possibility, then Ultimecia could be ANYONE. Ultimecia could be a GUY if you want to allow for that.
And facial structure? Are there really so many striking differences?
The game says time compression compresses "past present and future", and I personally don't see any reason for the game to mean limited amounts of it.Quote:
IIRC, Time compression is Ultimecia compressing the time between her present (the future) and the past that can only be reached by Ellone. It's technically "activated" from the future, and less technically activated from both the past AND the future.
No, you need to stop considering a film to be the absolute way time works and start paying more attention to the game, "buddy".Quote:
You need to watch the Back To The Future series, buddy.
You see, if you watch the ending, Squall goes back in time to the orphanage. Who does he meet there? Edea, certainly, but also someone else. A little boy.
Oh, that's the young Squall.
Two Squalls from different times stand straight next to eachother.
If Rinoa were then Ultimecia, the same will apply. Rinoa and Ultimecia could stand next to eachother.
Ok, the document needs updating, but only because I haven't included all the arguments backing up time compression ending.Quote:
I doubt this has any bearing, but this point can be argued against simply by saying that the orphanage exists within compressed time, as it exists within the timeframe that time is compressed in.
If all events exist at the same point, including this orphanage event, how does one get from one to another? while the Orphanage scene happens, we should at the same time be seeing Edea explain to the party about Ultimecia, because that's in the same line of events.
Hence the orphanage scene must exist outside time compression.
Even more obviously, if time was compressed at that point, how could Squall and Co move at all?
The corrected version only corrects two of the diagrams.I've attached it to this post.Quote:
On a final note, your explanation of the time loop was a monstrosity. I read it five times and couldn't understand it. If you did do a better job of it, I wouldn't mind seeing the "correct" version that you mentioned before. Feel free to PM me with it.
Then please point out what you don't understand, and I'll explain it.
I do realize that section needs updating, because it's rather big, meaning ti could get kind of confusing, so I will try and make it simpler to understand.
All that lines trying to explain theories about time traveling are just so amazing that anybody can make an script for a movie from them. Iīll try to explain what I think about all this ( make an effort to understand my english ). My theory about time travel is short, You Canīt change past or future in this game , because it was already changed since the first time. The game story is like a full circle rounded, and there are several clues that nobody canīt change anything, is like destiny, let see. In the end of 1st cd you can see an stunning sequence in wich squall get hurt by Edea with an huge ice stick just in his chest , the game would be UNREAL if squall donīt die or mention this wound in the rest of the game , an he didnīt !, squall just wake up like he was in the warmest dream ever, to fight again like new, I Thought he Was dead !, I said " Aeris II ??" It canīt be possible they are killing the star !, but the reality is that He Canīt die !, because if he die, he canīt go where ultimecia is and kill her, so , ultimecia wonīt back on time to give her powers to edea and edea donīt have porwers so... how squall die ?.
Rinoa CANīT DIE , because sheīs the main part of the circle created on time travel, the whole scene in the space is to prove that, and itīs all explained in the Squall-go-crazy FMV at the end. If Rinoa die in that space scene the whole would circle is broken !, If rinoa die in some point of the present, ultimecia dies in the future. lets say that rinoa is not ultimecia (only once), If rinoa die in the space, Squall future donīt change ?, She canīt because she was there in the fight with ultimecia, it was obligatory to keep the circle going without any change, the people who die was meant to die, and the two FMV of rinoa and Squall dying is to explain that. Ultimecia Canīt change anything cause sheīs part of that crazy circle , she is like doing what she was meant to do, thereīs no other choices, In the game is not mencioned, But , how many times Squall have tried to kill ultimecia , and stop her to pass her powers to edea ?, millions ?, why it just donīt change in one of those million times ? . rinoa canīt change the future, if sheīs ultimecia, she canīt go back and save squall , Or not ?, Who save squall from that deadly attack ?, was rinoa traveling and changing things to keep squall alive ?, maybe . This idea came to me after realize that the main story of the game is not romance, is destiny ( check the meaning of Libery Fataly), where Ultimecia comes from ? , we donīt know, the only thing we know is that Rinoa and squall where meant to be involved in that circle, thatīs all the information they gave to us, no more, I would like to read something like "Ultimecia was born in..." or "ultimecia came from...", god... she got to be rinoa , there are so many proof, but nobody knows except the guy who write the script, he must be laughing at us at this moment, maybe he doesnīt know either.
R=U has to be true but then again it just cant! Well here is what i think based on what all the other topics have discussed. Ok here we go...the quote and the pictures supporting the facts are all really cool and really throw me more towards believing it. But here is what i want to throw into the pot unless someone hasn't already. I think I remember when Cid was talking to the gang and he said that every sorcress should have its knight. Adel didn't have a knight and look what happened, she was evil. (It was something along those lines) Well Squall was Rinoas knight and like everyone says, if he died then she wouldn't have a knight to be by her side and thus making her go crazy like Adel? Also, when Ultemecia was controlling Edea, she chose Seifer as her knight............(dot dot dot) didn't Rinoa and Seifer have some sort of relationship together? She really did like Seifer, and she made him feel important when he was her knight....did she do this on purpose? Again sorry if I said anything wrong.