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Pharoh Amon Khan III is right. Not that I agree with the theory, but (I hope i don't look like Viator) the entire time cannot be compressed because time is infinite. Therefore, the compression started that the betatesters first played the game in late 1999 would still be happening, and those poor guys would still be fighting those weird sorceresses that show up.
There is no reason to believe that her death in the future would affect her ability to compress the future. Squall and co are still alive when they fight Ultimecia, despite the fact that their deaths would have been chronologically included in Time Compression as well. You're making a judgment on the limitations of Time Compression when it isn’t supported by anything within the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharoh Amon Khan III
There isn't any proof that time is infinate either.Quote:
Originally Posted by DfKimera
[QUOTE=Lilliputian Hitcher;1855436]There is no reason to believe that her death in the future would affect her ability to compress the future. Squall and co are still alive when they fight Ultimecia, despite the fact that their deaths would have been chronologically included in Time Compression as well. You're making a judgment on the limitations of Time Compression when it isn’t supported by anything within the game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharoh Amon Khan III
What I'm saying is that... Uh... Sir Bahamut help with this one here. Let's look at like this Jackson... Stand up and stretch your arms out to the either side. One side is the past the other is future. YOU are currently in the 'present'.
Now one of these you're gonna have some matter to grab on to, (the past) and other you're just gonna be grasping at air (the future) because it hasn't happened yet. See the trick with the 'future-present' thing is that the future instantly becomes the present. See what I mean about not being able to compress 'all time' and the 'future'?
Ultimecia was attempting to achieve the "Everlasting Moment". I mean, think about it... If she have could have compressed the future that would mean that she would have compressed the actual moment of her achieveing the combined might of the succession without having to reach into the past. Technically like she was crossing the finishline before she even got inside the starter's box. And we would have to call her Sorceress Seabiscut.
It's really an ironic fated tale of madness and sadness because she's just trying to find that 'that moment' when hide away and give all SeeDs the finger from a safe distance and start blasting "Twisted Sister" songs like "We're Not Gonna Take IT (Anymore)" Incidentally that would make a rocking Magneto video on Youtube. :D
I always see time and time travel in this equation I came up with.
1= Past
2= Present
3= Future
1.5= Actual Present
Now there's lots of arguement about time being finite and infinite but those are just means of structuring time to something like a line, flowing energy (river), or a sphere... We could be all day on that; and I can't compress time. I hope I've explained myself clearly if not... To quote Ultimecia "Fufu".
You’re still making assertions that aren’t supported by the game. If the future hadn’t been written yet, then their wouldn’t be a sorceress from the future trying to compress time. I think that’s a pretty clear indication that there is something in the future to ‘grab onto’.
From her present she can't pull from the future. She's only able to draw from the past which is era of the Fated Children; From the Fated Children's perspective Ultimecia IS the 'future' but from Ultimecia's perspective she is in the present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher
She not only can't draw from future; but if she did she would effectively putting herself in the fate she's trying to avoid. So she really wouldn't want to compress that moment.
One thing to note whenever you're talking about time travel... Your perspective of time will almost constantly change.
Our present is the future to our past.
:D An there is people that say FFVIII plot is lame, there is no discussions like this on the FFVII thread
I'm one of those people that believe it. And it's not 'lame' persay... I think it was very poorly executed. Otherwise there really wouldn't be any threads like this. But hey... here we are... :love: There's potential for this roller coaster but it just doesn't catch my stomach and it tries to compensate with over the top visuals to cover up a story that has a great setting but unattachable hollow characters, save Squall. Don't hate me.
Now the R=U adds something like the story of Darth Vader to it. If Episode One was your first Star Wars, then one can see how it's hard to imagine how this innocent boy will become the scurge of the galaxy. Much like R=U there clues that hint to it, and it's not that there are 'facts' against it that hurts it so, it's that there support for it are pretty null and void.
It's almost like a questionable intentional/unintentional 'easter egg' after the story ends. Because whether Rinoa becomes Ultimecia or no, Ultimecia still exists in the future at the end and can possess her... Or can't she?
When I first played it I found very stupid to kill a witch from the future and then go back to the past, the witch is still in the future, is like a sick circle with infinite posibilities. This guys from square ruins easily the end of FFX by doing a pink sequel, I bet the death of tidus was something official right ?. but don´t open their mouths to speak about this, maybe they are sitting in a table asking " can somebody please tell me if rinoa is ultimecia? , who put that easter egg there ? " , I think a short animation about ultimecia origin would be a lot popular for all of us.
If she is located in the present when she compresses the future, it is still the future. And I still really don't see why compressing the future would bring about her destruction. Even if her death is located in the future, I don't see why compressing this event would cause her any harm any more than compressing any other event in which she isn't alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharoh Amon Khan IIIFrom her present she can't pull from the future. She's only able to draw from the past which is era of the Fated Children; From the Fated Children's perspective Ultimecia IS the 'future' but from Ultimecia's perspective she is in the present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher
She not only can't draw from future; but if she did she would effectively putting herself in the fate she's trying to avoid. So she really wouldn't want to compress that moment.
One thing to note whenever you're talking about time travel... Your perspective of time will almost constantly change.
Our present is the future to our past.
I hear ya. And when I found out it was going to turn into a 'time story'... I dropped the controller... I suddenly became concerned that after getting past the 'Oh I guess we forgot'... A time travel story is hardly ever done correctly or is just used as an easy cop-out. And just to add insult to injury as I shakingly picked up the controller to 'see where this goes' they throw in "Time Compression"....:eep: :eep: :eep:Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
I dropped it and popped in FF Tactics. It made me happy!:love:
But here is where a lot of the confusion starts that the story does a complete 360 even though up till you didn't even know what direction you were going.
I see you point about Tidus. I was going around saying that Tidus was nothing but a dream and so he returned to what he was. Then Square decides to test the waters and FFX-2 sank like stone. I have yet to get through this game... I'm caught between the emotions of feeling perverted, gay, or dumbed down...
The only problem with FFVIII is that it's like most movies and comics today... Good idea, bad execution, and just drop the "The End" sign because it's done. Not concluded, but just done.
Now, it's funny you should mention Tidus from FFX. It makes me think of "Eyes On Me" Squall wasn't a 'dreamer' but Tidus was. LOL
Also to note. I believe that Squall actually died. This would explain another thing pissed me off... So much I started to call the shot before it came up. At end of the discs, Squall blacks out and there's this stretch of unexplained time between then and now and it's buggin' the helled-horrors outta me. It happened twice and twice with Rinoa Ultimecia and Edea and Seifer all in the same proximity. Waitaminute... Was Edea there the second time? I dunno.
Y'know what I think about that shattering helmet and 'faceless Squall'? I think Squall died when Edea killed him. That's why he cried at the end.
'Course that's just what I think.:rolleyes2
Because that's the event she's trying to avoid. She knows that her ultimate end is coming. She's trying to prevent it or just avoid it by escaping to another moment in time that will last forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilliputian HitcherIf she is located in the present when she compresses the future, it is still the future. And I still really don't see why compressing the future would bring about her destruction. Even if her death is located in the future, I don't see why compressing this event would cause her any harm any more than compressing any other event in which she isn't alive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pharoh Amon Khan IIIFrom her present she can't pull from the future. She's only able to draw from the past which is era of the Fated Children; From the Fated Children's perspective Ultimecia IS the 'future' but from Ultimecia's perspective she is in the present.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher
She not only can't draw from future; but if she did she would effectively putting herself in the fate she's trying to avoid. So she really wouldn't want to compress that moment.
One thing to note whenever you're talking about time travel... Your perspective of time will almost constantly change.
Our present is the future to our past.
Imagine snapping your fingers and freezing that moment... The sound of the snap would probably never go away. Now you're wondering how can Squall and company still be alive if they've travelled to a time assumed to be long after their natural life span.
Don't want to say anything this weak, but it's true: Fate. They ARE the Fated Children. Plus what I see a lot of people don't understand about time travel is that the only reason you were able to travel through time or do anything is because you were supposed to follow those series of events. The 'dominoes' will fall where they may and there's nothing you can do to change it once they've fallen.
It's like my quote: "I do what I can because I can." Otherwise how else could I have done it?
You still haven't explained why compressing a time that includes her death would cause her to die. If she compresses everything to the point where nothing exists except herself (which was said to be her goal within the game), then she won't die because there will be nothing to kill her.
Okay... let's say that Ultimecia is one in a line of dominoes representing events in time. Now all the dominoes before her's have fallen or are in the process falling, this representing flowing time and past (fallen) events.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lilliputian Hitcher
Now remember, Ultimecia already knows that the following dominoes behind her, maybe the very next one, contain the event that she dies and this is the domino she's trying to avoid. So she gathers up all the dominoes before her (ergo compressing) and basically stacks them all together and compresses them into this one all mighty domino? The the rest of the dominoes behind her will not fall; she's stopped the line. More than likely those 'fated' still standing dominoes will disappear.
But because she was unsuccessful we will never know what would happen to those dominoes. Their missing that kinetic event that would set them in motion or even be there...
Kinda reminds me of line from the MOTU movie when the Sorceress of Greyskull talks to Skeletor:
"Men of great power... look back over their past mistakes... pile them all together... and call it 'destiny'."
I hope this explains. :love:
The Fated Children are killing the entire succession of witches as they travel through Time Compression or whatever effectively killing each Sorceress and aiding Ultimecia to absorb their fraction of the Sorceress Power. This also explains why no one has seen a Sorceress since Adel... They may not have necessarily been 'in hiding'. And this is how they passed on their power, where as the only way Edea recieved her power was from Ultimecia herself and thus began the Fated Loop.
This also leads me to believe that Ultimecia was not truly insane the whole time but was rather still absorbing Sorceress Power(s) when the Fated Children arrived and it was driving her insane at that point or at least disoriented as displayed by both Rinoa and Edea.
In effect... "Fufu". :love:
If she only compresses what's behind her, then there is still a future in which she dies. Compression only the past would be pointless if her goal is indeed to avoid her ultimate fate.