Despite the creators explicitly stating the opposite?Quote:
On a personal note, I found that Advent Children in particular confirmed one thing for me: Jenova was the real villain, and Sephiroth was just being her bitch.
Charcoal, you can't simply ignore a retcon because you don't like it. That really is what this all boils down to. If the creators want to change their work, than it's changed. Same as with Star Wars and the Special Editions.
I don't ignore The Compilation like in "it does not exist". Because it does, The Compilation is official, Square Enix made it. What I mean is you can consider The Compilation an alternative to the original because there are too many things that don't fit between Final Fantasy VII and The Compilation of it. That is what I mean by "why we can ignore The Compilation if we wish". We can choose to abandon it because the original FFVII and The Compilation fit together like chicken and ice cream :p .
And what about the UOG? It exist only to explain what wasn't explained in the game. But Compilation Haters still ignore it, believing more in their own theories, than in the word of SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal
Example:
Completely wrong, as proved by the UOG. But some people still ignore the book without any reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi
maby people like what they think betterQuote:
Originally Posted by The CrystalAnd what about the UOG? It exist only to explain what wasn't explained in the game. But Compilation Haters still ignore it, believing more in their own theories, than in the word of SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal
Example:
Completely wrong, as proved by the UOG. But some people still ignore the book without any reason.Quote:
Originally Posted by Psi
Thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal
Probably. And inside of their heads, they can belive in whatever they want. But going to a forum and stating their own opinions/interpretations as a fact, even when their theories are already proved wrong by SE itself, is ridiculous.Quote:
Originally Posted by aerisfantatic
Is like when Ryushikaze was saying Sephiroth isn't the strongest in FFVII world, even after i showed a quote of Kitase that say he is the strongest. Or when Ryu said the Tainted Lifestream summoned by Sephiroth in the end of AC are just normal dark clouds, even after Kitase(or Nomura) already explained in an interview that the "clouds" are Tainted Lifestream.
The problem isn't with people that belive in their theories, but in people that try to convince us that their interpretations are the absolute truth, and that SE is wrong.
Square Enix haven't made a book explaining Final Fantasy VII; only Final Fantasy VII: Advent Children have been explained. So I've already explained why the UOG is ignored by the likes of me.Quote:
And what about the UOG? It exist only to explain what wasn't explained in the game. But Compilation Haters still ignore it, believing more in their own theories, than in the word of SE.
In some cases, indeed. Certain theories prove that...Quote:
maby people like what they think better
If The Compilation is the same as Square Enix to you (regarding answers to the plot of course) then yes they are wrong, because The Compilation is retcon. Like Ryushikaze said, that doesn't make it less official. But that was the point of this topic in the first place, to show you that official by no means is a guarantee of canon.Quote:
The problem isn't with people that belive in their theories, but in people that try to convince us that their interpretations are the absolute truth, and that SE is wrong.
Like I said, many believe parts of FFVII to be unsolvable. However, most of it makes perfect sense once you have played the game 20-30 times, written down all dialogue, tested different versions to see where they get shattered, and then finally, realising one version of your FFVII storylines make perfect sense.
It is a slow process and many players skip all this work, stick to one of their theories then begin entering discussions on forums. It is because of this difficulity of deciphering the storyline there are so many theories "out there", and that is also why people generally never agree with each other when a theory is presented.
Square Enix used this opportunity to make a Compilation of it all. They have made a fortune or two by doing so.
Charcoal, you(and other Compilation Haters) have to understand one thing. Even if your theories make sense to you, you guys don't have ANY authority to decide what is canon/official and what is not. SE created the games/movie/books, and ONLY them have controll over the story. They are the "gods" of FFVII universe, and anything they say is the truth. FFVII is THEIR story NOT yours.
Even if one or two things contradict each other, doesn't mean it isn't canon. Just means that is bad story-telling with some plot-holes.
SE created the FFVII series. They know more about it than you.
But i think that i understand why you(and other Compilation Haters) hate the Compilation so much. During many years, people analysed FFVII and created giant FAQs and theories about it. And wasted their time doing that. Then one day, SE say "Sorry, but you are wrong". After that, many people were pissed, because they wasted their time in giant and intelligent analyses, that were proved wrong by just a few words of SE. Because of this, many pissed people refused to agree with that, and decided that their well explained theories are better than the word of SE.
I understand that. I would be pissed too. But like i said before, the fans don't have authority over the FFVII universe to decide what is, and what isn't. This is the sad truth, and we have to deal with it.
Actually Crystal, I used the example to point something else out. They came to a conclusion, the Knife wound killed the victam. The evidence later showed that the poison would have killed him before the knife, therefore the knife wound had nothing to do with his death.
Just like people thinking something about FF VII, however future evidence, in this case Square saying so, stated otherwise.
This means regardless of what they think of the orginal story line, because of whats revealed by square later thats what it is. Just because it came up later doesn't make it any less true.
The Ultimania Omega guide (and other official Square Enix materials) and the Compilation of Final Fantasy VII is canon, whether you like it or not. It's really hard to take someone seriously (much less someone who enjoys creating bizarre theories) when they're actually ignoring established canon. There is no opinion on something in a fictional universe when the creators of the said universe have already declared something to be true or not (or to be a certain way).
True. I don't work for Square Enix and so I have no authority to decide what's canon or not. However I don't consider retcon FFVII canon (the reason should be obvious). I don't claim retcon is necessarily a bad thing, if a story needs some improvements, retcon might be what restoring it. FFVII however never needed such treatment, only reason FFVII ever got retcon in it is because Square Enix reel in on that. It is official yes, and so it is a new version of the FFVII story. I wanted to point out that there is a previous version of FFVII too. This version isn't official anymore, no. But that makes it no less existent.
You might very well be right regarding much of that The Crystal. The reason I hate The Compilation though, isn't this. I hate The Compilation because it might affect how a remake of the game is going to look like. A remake of Final Fantasy VII for the PS3 (or possibly the "PS4") is the game on top of my "Most Wanted" list atm, and it has been there for quite some time now. If The Compilation makes its way into a FFVII remake I'll be really disappointed :( .Quote:
i think that i understand why you(and other Compilation Haters) hate the Compilation so much. During many years, people analysed FFVII and created giant FAQs and theories about it. And wasted their time doing that. Then one day, SE say "Sorry, but you are wrong". After that, many people were pissed, because they wasted their time in giant and intelligent analyses, that were proved wrong by just a few words of SE. Because of this, many pissed people refused to agree with that, and decided that their well explained theories are better than the word of SE.
I understand that. I would be pissed too. But like i said before, the fans don't have authority over the FFVII universe to decide what is, and what isn't. This is the sad truth, and we have to deal with it.
Retcons are canon by default. The SW:SE retcons are canon, for example. Also, congratulations for completely destroying your point. You don't work for SE, and, as such, have no say in what is or is not canon.Quote:
Originally Posted by Charcoal
What you now MEAN to say is that the compilation is not in your personal FANON.
Dammit will you stop saying "The Crystal" every time you refer to him. I know thats his name, but damn thats annoying.
Retcon can't be canon by default, it speaks for itself. I don't have any say in what is canon or not because I don't work for Square Enix, and so I can't give you any official information. That doesn't mean I have ruined my point, which is official are not always equal to canon. It means I can't tell you this from an official source and because of that you have to make up your own opinion in deciding whether to consider The Compilation canon or not, that's the whole point of the topic.Quote:
Retcons are canon by default. The SW:SE retcons are canon, for example. Also, congratulations for completely destroying your point. You don't work for SE, and, as such, have no say in what is or is not canon.
What you now MEAN to say is that the compilation is not in your personal FANON.
Then I suggest The Crystal himself tell me that so I can call him Crystal if he think that sounds better :) . Or should I start calling you Cracker :p ? Maybe I can be Coal :tongue: ?Quote:
Dammit will you stop saying "The Crystal" every time you refer to him. I know thats his name, but damn thats annoying.
i liked the first sequal (ac), but some of the prequals (last order) controdict a game that wasn[t really meant to have any prequals in the first place.