What FF Villains Could Beat Sin?S

I really hate threads like this but what the hell...

For the sake of argument I am not even going to base my logic on game mechanics (cause it's stupid and pointless) so you can take your Particle Beams, Giga Galvatron, and Trance Ultima and stick it up where the sun don't shine.:mad: Back on topic...

The real question that will answer this is how the Final Aeon works, which is never showned or explained in the game so for the sake of argument we'll assume that the Final Aeon works through force (i.e. it's more powerful than Sin and can pentrate it's shield and thick hide). If it worked another way (though the evidence is seriously lacking) then this debate would be irrelevant.

This would dictate that force alone could beat him. Because of this, it's possible for Exdeath, Kefka, Kuja, Sephiroth, and the Cloud of Darkness could destroy Sin cause all of them either showcased enough power to decimate a planet on a large scale (something Sin seems incapable of) or by story explanation should have the power to do so.

The Palamecian Emperor is strong but even his power to create devastating Tornadoes wouldn't bother Sin, Ultemacia never showcased enough power to do anything other than bend time to her will but even then we never got a decent estimate of her abilities so arguing her validness is moot. The Undying doesn't showcase even a fraction of what Sin pulled off so we'll assume he would lose. Chaos is sorta've in the same boat as Ultimacia but overall he just seems to be strong and nothing else.

Zeromus is a completely different story though... We never get to see how powerful he is on a destructive scale but the whole story sequence about the crystal can't be discounted. The question depends on how you interpret the scene. Personally, I feel Zeromus was a spiritual being and Cecil using the Crystal gave him a physical form which means he could be killed. In his true form, Zeromus can't be hurt but like the other mentioned above, we don't have any clear evidence of the extent of his power so chances were he probably couldn't hurt Sin so the battle would end in a stalemate. If Zeromus was in his final form he could be beaten by Sin.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Ultemacia never showcased enough power to do anything other than bend time to her will but even then we never got a decent estimate of her abilities so arguing her validness is moot.

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She was inside Edea's body controlling it during great part of the story. Everything "Edea" did have to be attributed to Ultimecia. And what about canceling magic in the final battle? Creating Griever out of Squall's mind?


Another one who have a chance against Sin, from what I heard about him, is Promathia.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Ultemacia never showcased enough power to do anything other than bend time to her will but even then we never got a decent estimate of her abilities so arguing her validness is moot.

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She was inside Edea's body controlling it during great part of the story. Everything "Edea" did have to be attributed to Ultimecia. And what about canceling magic in the final battle? Creating Griever out of Squall's mind?


Another one who have a chance against Sin, from what I heard about him, is Promathia.

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I can't say anything about Promathia (stupid internet connection won't let me play XI I'm afraid...).:cry:

Though I won't deny Ultimacia doesn't have some impressive abilities, I'm going for brute force here which is something we never get to see in the game. Edea really never did anything impressive enough to make it plausible either her (or Ultimacia controlling her) could stand a chance against Sin. Basically, if we had a better understanding of her destructive potential, we could determine something but ultimately it's pure specualtion.

The more I think about it, I'm going to say Sephiroth probably couldn't beat Sin either. The chances of Sin being hit with Meteor or being stupid enough to be in it's initial blast zone seems inplausible to me. Not to mention the fact that the climate devastation would have little impact on Sin since it's not technically an organic being from a scientific viewpoint (at least what little we know). Sephiroth would literally have to cast the Meteor spell and somehow get it to hit the planet from every direction to actually destroy Sin and there is little evidence to prove whether he's capable of pulling this off...

Not to mention the whole week it takes Meteor to arrive, Sin could have squashed Sephiroth....

I'm going to side with a few people here and say that Trance Kuja and Kefka in WoR are probably the two villains that would have the best chance, given their god-like status.

Actually, disregard that, Palmer could beat Sin.

Damn straight.

Did you see him get hit by that truck? Took it like nothing.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Ultemacia never showcased enough power to do anything other than bend time to her will but even then we never got a decent estimate of her abilities so arguing her validness is moot.

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She was inside Edea's body controlling it during great part of the story. Everything "Edea" did have to be attributed to Ultimecia. And what about canceling magic in the final battle? Creating Griever out of Squall's mind?


Another one who have a chance against Sin, from what I heard about him, is Promathia.

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I can't say anything about Promathia (stupid internet connection won't let me play XI I'm afraid...).:cry:

Though I won't deny Ultimacia doesn't have some impressive abilities, I'm going for brute force here which is something we never get to see in the game. Edea really never did anything impressive enough to make it plausible either her (or Ultimacia controlling her) could stand a chance against Sin. Basically, if we had a better understanding of her destructive potential, we could determine something but ultimately it's pure specualtion.

The more I think about it, I'm going to say Sephiroth probably couldn't beat Sin either. The chances of Sin being hit with Meteor or being stupid enough to be in it's initial blast zone seems inplausible to me. Not to mention the fact that the climate devastation would have little impact on Sin since it's not technically an organic being from a scientific viewpoint (at least what little we know). Sephiroth would literally have to cast the Meteor spell and somehow get it to hit the planet from every direction to actually destroy Sin and there is little evidence to prove whether he's capable of pulling this off...

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Ultimecia can look into Sin or Yu Yevon's mind, see what he think is the strongest thing in existence, rip it out, give it physical form, control it, and merge its power with hers. She wins IMO.

And forget Meteor. Sephiroth have controll over the majority of the Lifestream in Gaia. He can transform an entire planet in his vessel. With a power like that, I think he have a good chance.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

Ultimecia can look into Sin or Yu Yevon's mind, see what he think is the strongest thing in existence, rip it out, give it physical form, control it, and merge its power with hers. She wins IMO.

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First off, X gives the impression that Yu-Yevon doesn't have enough of a mind to look into. I doubt she could find anything of use. At best, she might be able to create another Sin. I still doubt her power would make much of a difference and even if she did destroy Sin, Yu-Yevon would just take over the Sin she created (it would technically count as an Aeon) and then it would devolve into a battle of wills but I personally feel Ultimacia would fall to Yu-Yevon's madness.

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And forget Meteor. Sephiroth have controll over the majority of the Lifestream in Gaia. He can transform an entire planet in his vessel. With a power like that, I think he have a good chance.

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Sephiroth never pulled this off and I doubt it's a power unique to him (Aerith showed something similiar to this concept of exerting their will over the planet) so Sephiroth would have to contend with the minds of every lifeform that makes up the Lifestream. Even if he got control, what could he do? Him using the power of the planet to destroy Sin would probably destroy the planet as well which means he would destroy himself as well. The battle is a stalemate.

Fayth
"Yu Yevon was once a summoner, long ago."
"He was peerless."
"Yet now he lives for one purpose: only to summon."
"He is neither good, nor evil. He is awake, yet he dreams."

@Gilthanes: I see what you meant by "inexperienced" now. :) However, Lulu is on her third pilgrimage, Kimahri grew up a Ronso, so is probably even stronger than Auron because of his genes, and Wakka wouldn't have come along if he didn't have battle experience.

@ Avarice-Ness: I assumed that your party in VI took the name "Returners", because Locke and Edgar were already members, Terra and Sabin joined the Returners as well, and your party grew from there. So, my statement should have read:

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Kefka: Beaten by your main party at least twice.

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1. Defending the Esper at Narshe, when you split your party into three groups.
2. The final battle.

Also, I doubt Kefka LoJ would be effective on Sin, since we never see it in action against anything that can fight back. Recall Operation Mi'ihen, and the Al Bhed's machina attack on Sin.

@ Elpizo: The only reason GG has to charge is because of the Hymn. Without it, the battle with Overdrive Sin would have him start with a full OD bar, ambush you 100% of the time, and be able to bypass First Strike. Am I getting my point about GG across?

@ Wolf Kanno: Attacks like Big Bang, Particle Beam, Ultima, Supernova, etc. are game mechanics because the animation is exaggerated. It causes massive explosions, but does not blast your party into tiny little pieces. GG's effect is exactly what the animation suggests: the party is crushed by an unblockable attack. Try casting Auto-Life in that battle and letting Sin use GG. Did you party survive? No, they didn't. This is because GG is more than a mere game mechanic. It's in the same boat as LoJ

Considering Zeromus cannot be hurt unless weakened by a Paladin who is using the Crystal, Zeromus can take him down.

If it is a long range battle my bet is also on Kefka, and Kuja as well.

And from what I understand Neo X-Death and the power of the Void was pretty kick butt.

Things that I wouldn't be on...

Sephiroth: His use of the sword would be useless, and "Turning the earth into his vessal" never actually occurred Crystal, deal with it. Not to mention that would be totally useless in a 1-1 fight anyway.

Ulti: Time is good and all, but Time Compression takes time for her, Sin would just blow her up.

Chaos: Never really anything impressive.

Vayne: He was cool and all, but his power is never really explained, and he didn't look good enough to beat Sin.

The I have no Idea section.

Emperor: Dunno never beat FFII.
Dark Cloud: Never beat FFIII

Chaos doesn't sound too special to me. I don't think creating time loops will help against defeating Sin.

I have to say that the Emporer might be able to beat Sin, since he became the King of Heaven and Hell. That's quite a feat there.

Don't know much about Cloud of Darkness...

Many people are saying Zeromus can beat Sin, but I don't think this can be considered correct. In his first form, Zeromus may be invulnerable to physical and magical attacks, but he can't fight until he is hit. It was only in his second form when he started to relentlessly attack. I think this was why in his first form, Zeromus was only able to attack the party when Golbez and FuSoYa casted Meteor. And I think this is also why he would sit there doing nothing until Cecil used the Crystal. So all Sin would have to do is...nothing! And the battle would be a stalemate.

Neo X-Death could most likely beat Sin. The Void is the most powerful force in FFV, with the exception of the Crystals.

Kefka could beat Sin as well, since he had the power of the Statues, and the game said that the statues had control over all magic in FFVI.

I think Sephiroth might have a chance against Sin. In FFVII, even though he didn't control all of Lifestream, I would probably say he controlled a good amount of Lifestream (most likely half). The rest of it was controlled by Aeris and the planet. And half of the planet's energy might actually be enough to beat Sin. Not to mention he was also powerful enough to contain Holy's power, one of FFVII's most powerful forces.

Sin would kill Ultimecia long before she could achieve Time Compression.

I doubt Sin could blow up Spira in one attack, even with Giga Graviton. But Trance Kuja could, so Kuja wins.

As for Shuyin, he himself cannot possibly beat Sin. However, he probably could with Vegnagun.

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Originally Posted by PuPu

Many people are saying Zeromus can beat Sin, but I don't think this can be considered correct. In his first form, Zeromus may be invulnerable to physical and magical attacks, but he can't fight until he is hit. It was only in his second form when he started to relentlessly attack. I think this was why in his first form, Zeromus was only able to attack the party when Golbez and FuSoYa casted Meteor. And I think this is also why he would sit there doing nothing until Cecil used the Crystal. So all Sin would have to do is...nothing! And the battle would be a stalemate.

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Have we ever seen Sin hold himself back against someone who isn't Tidus? Sin is a ruthless killing machine, devoid of a brain. The closest thing it has to a brain is Yu Yevon, and I think we can safely say he's too stupid to figure out that he shouldn't attack Zeromus.

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I doubt Sin could blow up Spira in one attack, even with Giga Graviton. But Trance Kuja could, so Kuja wins.

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While it's directly stated Kuja destroyed all of Terra, it wasn't just one attack.

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Originally Posted by Goldenboko

Sephiroth: His use of the sword would be useless, and "Turning the earth into his vessal" never actually occurred Crystal, deal with it. Not to mention that would be totally useless in a 1-1 fight anyway.

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Sin can't hit Sephiroth, because of his insane speed(equal to Chaos Vincent, Omega Weiss, and DBZ characters) and intangibility(the power of the J-cells).

The Lifestream destroyed the Northern Crater barrier, it destroyed everything(buildings and etc) in it's way to stop Meteor(this was explained in "On a Way to a Smile"), AND destroyed Meteor itself.

.........Sephiroth can controll this Lifestream and make it cover the sky in seconds and attack anything he want. It's like a more powerfull version of the Light of Judgement.

He is at least in the same level of friggin Omega Weapon, because "there is nothing above him". Omega IS a vessel to all the energy of the planet. And Seph is at least EQUAL to her/it.

Yes, Sephiroth can transform the planet in a vessel, "deal with it".

And IMO, he have a good chance against Sin. It's my opinion, and you will have to "deal with it" too.