SMT: Persona 4 Arriving this winter

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Originally Posted by Mirage

P3 is far from flawless. I think it leaves too much to depend on luck, rather than stats and tactics. A more customizable AI would be good, or just like they're doing in P4, let all characters be controllable. I died a lot of times in P3 just because the AI didn't do the smart thing, of while i was waiting for my turn so i could issue them new commands. Oh also, last boss that can charm you and make you use diarahan, that's just a huge smurf you right in the face from the developers.

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Don't play much from these guys do you? P3, hell MegaTen in general is far more heavily strategy based than other JRPGs or RPGs in general. Its about exploiting weaknesses and making sure you have a large enough variety of Persona's to counter most threats. Yes Random encounters are a bitch but since when was it written that they shouldn't be? I actually enjoy the fact that I need to be careful with even minor encounters.

I'm playing through New Game+ right now and I've dragged Lv. 6 characters into the high level optional dungeon. A dungeon that kicked my ass when my party was 60+ and I'm still able to win battles with my low level party by just exploiting the right weaknesses and being careful not to use All out Attack when I know it will kill me later.

The A.I. is pretty smart if you use the Tactics correctly. It may not be the Gambit system nor is it controllable characters but its sure a hell of a lot better than say KH... Besides, I actually quite likes inability to control the party as it added greater risk and it made changing up your party more important.

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Then there's also the stupid idea of making it an automatic game over when the main character dies, rather than letting the AI controlled characters try to use a life recovery item or magic. I've entered a battle in great condition, without being ambushed, and see the main character die from two critical/weakness hits from two enemies. There's no way to stop that from happening other than being insanely overleveled, and that's just poor game design.

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Its annoying but it also keeps you on your toes and it makes every decision important in the game (hey, just like the theme of the game!:p) Honestly though, I found the main character tends to always be the last alive and due to experience with the MegaTen series, I make sure my default Persona when traveling is resistant to Hama or Mudo. Btw, levels don't really help as much as your type of Persona. Even if you have a level 60 demon with high physical stats, it can still be taken down by a low level magic user exploiting his weakness (or spamming Almighty...) hence the strategy element involved. One has to look at more than just stats or skills or weaknesses. You have to balance the whole package.

I guess its hard for me to understand your complaints cause I actually don't mind seeing the Game Over screen every once and awhile, It means the developers are actually doing their job. The only time I ever died consistently was my own fault cause I used a party configuration that just didn't work and I refused to change. Most often its cause I got attached to a Persona that became obsolete to what I needed. If the enemy beats me fairly, I don't have issues (and in MegaTen, instant death magic is fair) so its hard for me to say the game is cheap or unfair. Just my opinion though...

Persona 3 was my first. What, is the game supposed to be for long time players only?

I never said there was a set formula for random encounters. My only point was that an oneor two-hit kill of your main character when he is nearly fully healed and doesn't have a chance to get healed in between, is just a punch in the face from the devs.

Now, if you haven't saved in an hour or so because you would have to restart at the last checkpoint which was 30 floors down, it just completely ruins my fun. Now I don't know about you, but I play my games because I want to have fun.

I'm not talking about making the games way too easy, I'm just talking about making them not so tedious. Having to re-do 30 floors because of one single mistake, error in judgement, or just bad luck that killed one out of 4 characters who all were able to use restoration items or magic, that counts towards being tedious in my opinion. Now, dying to a boss is something I can do 20 times in a row without feeling it's tedious, as long as I didn't have to spend over 30 minutes getting to it each time.

Now of course, P3 isn't the only game in which you're forced to redo parts if you die, it just seemed to happen more often in P3. I guess it was more the reason of death that annoyed me, rather than just the fact that I did die.

The AI is well, average i guess. It remembers weakpoints, and heals when needed. It's pretty stupid that the characters just go to "wait" when they can't harm the enemy if they're not set to heal/support though. It would be better if they automatically supported the character that actually could damage the enemy, and not resort to powering up themselves <.<. But yeah I've seen far worse AI than in P3, SO3 for instance, I just miss the ability to change the tactics at any time, and if main character san is in certain statuses, they can't be changed either. Maybe I'm a control and stat freak! :p

Anyway, even after considering the points i made now, I think P3 was a pretty good game, and I'm replaying it now too.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Persona 3 was my first. What, is the game supposed to be for long time players only?

I never said there was a set formula for random encounters. My only point was that an oneor two-hit kill of your main character when he is nearly fully healed and doesn't have a chance to get healed in between, is just a punch in the face from the devs.

Now, if you haven't saved in an hour or so because you would have to restart at the last checkpoint which was 30 floors down, it just completely ruins my fun. Now I don't know about you, but I play my games because I want to have fun.

I'm not talking about making the games way too easy, I'm just talking about making them not so tedious. Having to re-do 30 floors because of one single mistake, error in judgment, or just bad luck that killed one out of 4 characters who all were able to use restoration items or magic, that counts towards being tedious in my opinion. Now, dying to a boss is something I can do 20 times in a row without feeling it's tedious, as long as I didn't have to spend over 30 minutes getting to it each time.

Now of course, P3 isn't the only game in which you're forced to redo parts if you die, it just seemed to happen more often in P3. I guess it was more the reason of death that annoyed me, rather than just the fact that I did die.

The AI is well, average i guess. It remembers weakpoints, and heals when needed. It's pretty stupid that the characters just go to "wait" when they can't harm the enemy if they're not set to heal/support though. It would be better if they automatically supported the character that actually could damage the enemy, and not resort to powering up themselves <.<. But yeah I've seen far worse AI than in P3, SO3 for instance, I just miss the ability to change the tactics at any time, and if main character san is in certain statuses, they can't be changed either. Maybe I'm a control and stat freak! :p

Anyway, even after considering the points i made now, I think P3 was a pretty good game, and I'm replaying it now too.

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The series pretty much follows P3 though in P2:EP you didn't get game over from your main character getting killed but then again it was still very likely that your whole party could be K.O.ed in one round cause you brought the wrong Personas. It's a different in taste I guess. If I get killed from a random encounter due to misjudgment and I have to redo 30 floors of hell, I blame myself. I've played the series and know fully well it punishes you for making little mistakes but its why I like it. I have to pay attention more, and I don't mind occasionally dying. I just make sure to do the age old saying of "save often" ;)

I play games for fun as well but I enjoy challenge cause it keeps me engaged. If games lack challenge I feel I might as well be reading a book or watching a video cause I'm only there for story and I feel the game aspect is a failure (hence my disdain for a few "interactive movie" type JRPGs).

I said before that I'm using low level characters (with one exception) in a high level dungeon. I'm actually capable of winning quite a few battles but I do see the game over screen alot as well. Its not difficult to be cheesed in the game but then again its only fair cause you do the same thing to win in the game as well. Its how MegaTen games work.

I don't mind being killed in the first round due to instant death magic in this series cause I know I can usually do the same thing back to the enemies. If it was like Zodiark in FFXII, where he wins fights by being cheap and instant killing your party yet he's overall a pansy (which he is :mad:) yet he's damn near impossible to take down (which he also is; cause he spams palings :mad2:) then I call foul play on the developers. I guess what I'm saying is I don't mind the cheapness in P3 cause its a 2 way road. As long as I understand that, I don't mind the supposedly "cheap kills" cause I know I'm facing the enemies on equal terms.

It takes awhile but once you accept how it works you realize how "flawless" the system really is :D