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Originally Posted by
Bolivar
@ zerokku
First of all, thanks for calling me a fanboy, accusing me of missing the point and saying how my post reeked of ignorance when all I've tried to do is present and defend an argument to you.[/sarcasm]
Please show me how you have not been a fanboy, making outright fallacious claims about sony. And saying that sony fans should get the game first, when this is a multiplatform release and you should never show favoritism in quite that matter. Not to mention that timed exclusives almost never sell as well on the other console (With the exception of GTA4 it seems) and so to make the most money, it would likely be best to release both at once. And you did miss the point. You went on an outright tangent that had nothing to do with what I was trying to say. How is that not missing the point?
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You and Kanno are wrong - Square owed nothing to Nintendo fans in 1997 because Sony created a system that could facilitate them to make the kind of games they wanted to create.
And nintendo offered them a system to even release their first 6 games on. What's your point? Yes sony had a superior system and square took advantage of that fact. That still doesn't mean they owe anything to sony, any more then they would to nintendo if the roles were reveresed.
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Just like Sony did again with Blu-Ray capacity and other technical innovations making it more feasible for larger games like the FF series has always been. But the main reason why is the disparate extent to which Sony owning fans contributed to Square's success, especially when compared to Nintendo (-only) owning fans.
Except that blu-ray is largely pointless in a game, and was mostly used by the main corporate sony to help push the format into the mainstream so they didn't fail hard like betamax or umd did. When it comes down to it, most games don't take much advantage out of it. MGS4 used uncompressed audio solely as justification for the blu-ray disc. The game could have fit on a standard DVD with compressed audio just as easily.
And of course sony owning fans contributed to the success and growth of the franchise, in large part to VII. That doesn't stop the fact that if it wasn't sony, it would just have easily been someone else. How does square owe sony anything?
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You obviously need a history lesson. Even Wolf Kanno would agree with me that the PSOne FF's made Square a household name, and led to an era on that console where they put out a whole host of masterpieces, many of which are qualified candidates for best game ever made in the various sub-genres of RPG's (Final Fantasy Tactics, Xenogears, Vagrant Story, etc). This allowed them to go on to make movies (which bankrupted them) and even come into partnerships with groups like Disney. Their status today would not have been possible without the work that came about from their partnership with Sony.
I'll grant you most of that. But the problem is, Pretty much none of that was sony's doing. It was square. Do I need to repeat myself? If it wasn't sony, it would just have likely been someone else. Final Fantasy VII could have released on the N64 and been a huge hit, and probably propelled nintendo into a larger success that console generation. Sony didn't exactly do amazingly at first during that gen if you remember.
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The Dreamcast had phenomenal games that innovated the medium, yet you would have precluded yourself from owning one for the sole reason they didn't win "the console wars". To me, the winner of a console war is the company that can use its technology the best to produce the best games, not sales, and I find it depressing that so many gamers today allow business statistics to drive their experiences in gaming.
You misunderstood me, I owned them despite my dislike of sony, because the amount of good games for the system. I didn't say I didn't own other systems. I loved the n64 and dreamcast. Sonic Adventure and Jet grind radio were smex.
And sales drive game development. If there's more people owning a system, then there are more people to buy a game on said system, and it's therefore more profitable to release a game on said system. Aka = Higher sales usually means more games, and with more games comes quality games as well. SNES, PSX, and PS2 are proof of this concept.
Well until this console generation at least, but this console gen is a whole different beast.
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Actually your logic is flawed because Nintendo is already clearly the winner, and they may very well end up with the most games, yet it would be hard to argue that their library is, or will be better than, either the 360 or PS3's.
But gaming is far more mainstream then it was back then, and the audience for those kinds of games simply aren't wii owners. Like I stated, this console gen has been unlike any other, so it's a bit hard to compare it.
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Both you and zerokku are diluting and generalizing a plethora of economic concepts into "bigger install base = more potential sales". One such concept your mitigating is brand name building. More PS3 owners bought MGS4 than the total PC, 360, and PS3 users who bought Far Cry 2, despite both being extraordinary games in their respective genres (if you could even say MGS has a genre). That's accountable to a number of reasons - it shows off what the PS3 is capable of, its a continuing partnership, etc.
MGS is also one of the more popular franchises around. Farcry? Not so much. Your arguement is a bit fallacious there. And once again, MGS4 does not show off what the ps3 is capable of. If they used compressed audio, the game could have easily been on a standard DVD.
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It's not unreasonable to believe that many PS3 users who are new to Final Fantasy will opt to buy another game like God of War III (probably going to release around the same time) because they'd rather see what their purchase can do.
The question is, can the 360 base offset those lost sales? Considering the Halo/Madden frat boy crowd that makes up most of its user base, it's hard to say.
I'd say yes. Lost Odyssey sold over 700,000 copies, a larger number then any other console JRPG so far this generation if I'm not mistaken. And that was an original IP from at the time, a somewhat unknown developer. This is Final Fantasy, a huge franchise with a huge fanbase and a long pedigree of good games.
