This game is so overrated.

Ok, there definitely are a lot of people who thought VII was insane because it was their first RPG, who didn't play FFIX for arbitrary reasons, etc. But you honestly shouldn't sweat over their opinions.

Quite frankly, a lot of true, honest "gamers" (eugh, i hate labelling myself) love this game and can give you a substantial analysis of why they feel it stands on its own merits.

But one thing you can't deny is that it had an impact on gaming. If it wasn't for Resident Evil, Final Fantasy VII, and Metal Gear Solid, gaming would've been held back a couple years.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about misunderstandings one character had with another person. I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

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What you haven't explained is why all those subplots don't qualify as just that. Your response here is just one big No True Scotsman fallacy.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

But one thing you can't deny is that it had an impact on gaming. If it wasn't for Resident Evil, Final Fantasy VII, and Metal Gear Solid, gaming would've been held back a couple years.

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Its influence is not necessarily a measure of its worth as a game.

i'm just gonna say one thing to the FFVII basher and leave it at that... FFIX was just a tribute to previous Fianl Fantasies before it including VII & VIII, take that as you may...

please quit sipping on the haterade, i don't care for FFIX but i don't go into the FFIX Sub-Forums and bash it with fallacies, looking for debate is one thing but you openly admited to looking for arguments and that constitutes as trolling...

There's nothing wrong with criticism. A forum for discussing the game is just that: for discussion, both positive and negative. My problem is that some of the reasoning for one of his main pieces of criticism is rather poorly supported.

Well you keep comparing Kuja to Sephiroth and I don't understand why. They arn't competing with each other, they're two different people in different stories, with different characters and situations.

Hell, I bet if Sephiroth had done as much as Kuja you'd complain he's just a rubbish copy.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

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Have you played FFVII?
Cloud, Tifa and Aeris are all the main characters, so I don't need to go there.

-Cait Sith starts out as a spy but changes sides.
-Yuffie starts off as a thief who joins your party to steal your Materia, after she does that and re-joins you, she sticks with the party to the end.
-Barret believes that Shinra are the main enemy of the planet, and leads a resistance movement to stop them. After meeting Cloud he realizes Sephiroth is the biggest threat to the planet and steps down as a leader to help Cloud defeat him, (plus his whole side story with his home town and Dyne).
-Red XIII originally just goes with the party as a means to get home, but with some convincing from his Grandfather (and an interesting side story), he chooses to help you.

I'm pretty much just reciting the story now, and I could go on. But if you don't call that character change and development then I don't know what you do.
Besides, if they had changed exactly like in IX then you would be ranting and raving that IX was just another VII.

I'm not hating on anything. I never said I hate FFVII. You can't deny the fact that its actually pretty fun playing FFVII. What I hate is how overrated VII and how underrated IX is. I didn't mean to make it sound like there was absolutely no character development in VII. All RPG have some type of character development. But take everything what Crop said and compare that to IX's character. Look at the character development in IX's character. Amarant, Steiner, Eiko, Dagger, Vivi, Freya and even Quina. Pick out one person out of this list who hasn't changed for the better. Whose issues haven't been solved? Did Zidane not involve himself in each and every one of their issues? Was anyone left out? Ask yourselves the same questions with the FFVII characters. And just incase people are wondering why I'm comparing VII and IX or Kuja and Sephiroth together is because, like I said before, I believe the underrated IX is better than the overrated VI and these are my reasons. That's was I was saying.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Did you even pay attention to Barret, Cid's and Red XIII's stories? Barret the hardass getting worn down and self-loathing with his perceived mistake, having to get his confidence back? Cid hating Shera for ruining his life, ultimately realizing why that happened? Red XIII hating his father for the perceived cowardice, learning the truth? That isn't even including the main story with Cloud and Tifa's development.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of FF7, but you seem to be trying to just nitpick at everything, including making things up where they don't exist.

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I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about misunderstandings one character had with another person. I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

People overrate the story, the characters, and espiecially Sephiroth. I think I covered why this guy was overrated. In fact, I don't even consider this nitpicking. I haven't even talked about the story, music, battle system and such. I stated 2 problems I had with this game. Characters and the villain. Oh wait, they can go together, so one problem.

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No, you stated that there was no character development which isn't true. You stated that it only revolves around 3 characters which isn't true and you stated that because the main story "is around 3 characters"....the game is poor, which isn't true. In fact the game is around more than 3. The only 2 that you can remotely say were underdeveloped are Reeve and Vincent (and the latter, I think it was Nomura who said this is deliberate, since giving him more dialogue takes away from how mysterious and cool he becomes).

The thing is, you then cite FF9 as your favourite but this has less dialogue overall, less characters and less development of those characters.

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Yes he killed Aeries, but he accomplishes nothing.

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So let me see...

Regenerating his entire body + absorbing Lifestream + controling Jenova + killing President Shinra and everyone in the Shinra building + killing a main character + mentally torturing the main hero + summoning Meteor + waking-up the WEAPONS + holding back Holy + destroying Midgar + creating Geostigma + corrupting part of the Lifestream = nothing. :roll2

Now I would have liked the game to end with Sephiroth destroying the planet...that would have been new, cool and totally unexpected.

But most don't like that. So when you compare his accomplishments to other villain's, it is impossible to expect that he fulfilled his main goal.

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Originally Posted by seiferalmasy2

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

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Did you even pay attention to Barret, Cid's and Red XIII's stories? Barret the hardass getting worn down and self-loathing with his perceived mistake, having to get his confidence back? Cid hating Shera for ruining his life, ultimately realizing why that happened? Red XIII hating his father for the perceived cowardice, learning the truth? That isn't even including the main story with Cloud and Tifa's development.

There are plenty of valid criticisms of FF7, but you seem to be trying to just nitpick at everything, including making things up where they don't exist.

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I don't think you're understanding what I'm saying. I'm not talking about misunderstandings one character had with another person. I'm talking about their character. What they believed in. Stuff like that.

People overrate the story, the characters, and espiecially Sephiroth. I think I covered why this guy was overrated. In fact, I don't even consider this nitpicking. I haven't even talked about the story, music, battle system and such. I stated 2 problems I had with this game. Characters and the villain. Oh wait, they can go together, so one problem.

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No, you stated that there was no character development which isn't true. You stated that it only revolves around 3 characters which isn't true and you stated that because the main story "is around 3 characters"....the game is poor, which isn't true. In fact the game is around more than 3. The only 2 that you can remotely say were underdeveloped are Reeve and Vincent (and the latter, I think it was Nomura who said this is deliberate, since giving him more dialogue takes away from how mysterious and cool he becomes).

The thing is, you then cite FF9 as your favourite but this has less dialogue overall, less characters and less development of those characters.

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I'm guessing you haven't read my last post.

and it's all because FFVII is overrated.

I don't think the popularity of FFVII causes people to think less of FFIX. If you like FFIX that's fine.I think FFVII is a better game overall but that's just my opinion.If you feel otherwise then be happy with it.Don't feel you have to knock down FFVII to build up FFIX.

:cool:

Your face is overrated.

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Originally Posted by The Crystal

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Originally Posted by the_sandman

Yes he killed Aeries, but he accomplishes nothing.

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So let me see...

Regenerating his entire body + absorbing Lifestream + controling Jenova + killing President Shinra and everyone in the Shinra building + killing a main character + mentally torturing the main hero + summoning Meteor + waking-up the WEAPONS + holding back Holy + destroying Midgar + creating Geostigma + corrupting part of the Lifestream = nothing. :roll2

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Haven't read one of your posts in a while. I love it :choc:

FFIX isn't underrated. It received near universal acclaim and was considered the swan song of the PSOne - it was a reason why a lot of us were ok with the fact that we couldn't find PS2's anywhere - we didn't need them.

Now as far as whether some people arbitrarily discounted it and never tried it because of silly reasons like "the main character has a tail" or "it was too kiddy", that's another matter.

This game needs a sequel. :bigsmile:

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Originally Posted by ANGRYWOLF

I don't think the popularity of FFVII causes people to think less of FFIX.

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You might not think it, but it's true. A lot of people won't give some games the time of day just because it's not popular, mainstream, they haven't heard of it etc. A guy I used to affiliate with was like that. Met one guy who wouldn't play FF but would play Paper Mario or Super Mario RPG. I questioned why he wouldn't play any of them after I told them that Square the same company that made Super Mario RPG made Final Fantasy. His response was something like "Well, it's Mario." I agree that VII is overrated. My problems were with the story as well and the characters.