Wada Discusses the future

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Well, of course, I loved games and I played them a lot, so I decided to join a game company, Square. However, back then I was really an uneducated consumer – I was a big fan of Final Fantasy but I hadn’t realised it was made by Square!

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Here's one reason why I don't think he's fit as the president over there.
How the heck can you be a big fan of a frachised game and not realize the first thing that pops up when you put the cartridge in?
Also from his dialogue it seemed being the head of Square was one of his last resorts. I just personally think to be in a position that high you have to had been inspired to do so for a while.

I thought I read about some FF that had parties of more than five where you didn't actually control what the individuals did but set up strategies so that if someone died they would swap out with one of the other ten or whatever. Or some such weirdness.

Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is that once things started to change aesthetically with VII and then gameplay wise thereafter, I had zero interest in any post-VI games (except IX, of course).

That's why I was super stoked to see Final Fantasy Gaiden . . . but then super irked to see it get no US release. It looked like a new FF game in the style that I loved.

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Originally Posted by Bastian

I thought I read about some FF that had parties of more than five where you didn't actually control what the individuals did but set up strategies so that if someone died they would swap out with one of the other ten or whatever. Or some such weirdness.

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Nope. Such an FF title apparently only exists in your imagination.

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Originally Posted by Depression Moon

Also from his dialogue it seemed being the head of Square was one of his last resorts. I just personally think to be in a position that high you have to had been inspired to do so for a while.

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I didn't get the sense that Square was a last resort for him at all. I got the sense that early in his career he was simply someone who had an idea of where he wanted to get to in his career but didn't really have a sense of the how, or what industry would appeal to him. And the idea that you need to want to be in game development for a long time before you can be there. Many people stumble into things they're great at as much by accident as by design. Note that I'm not saying that's necessarily the case here, but saying you have to want it for quite a while is a load of hooey.

I'm all about new. Seriously, I love all the old FFs but XII was a freaking breath of fresh air.

Can someone explain to me what an "up to date" game is though? I hear this a lot now about both gameplay and graphics...like, if it isn't an FPS that looks like Crysis and plays like Halo now it's somehow "behind the times".

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

XIII, beyond its graphics and new combat system is mostly using the X model which to me was a gameplay model that should never be used cause it lacks creativity and is terribly limiting and was only justified cause it was an early PS2 game and Square's second title for the system. Having a next gen retrace back to an inferior model (despite being in development hell for close to a decade) to me is hardly progress and kinda tells me that the current FF teams priorities are not where they should be.

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I kind of got that from the interview, actually. He essentially admitted that the XIII team is catering to a fanbase, and all but came out and said they are not innovating at all, and hopes that they can do so with a new IP possibly. Except for your "quality over (or is it alongside?) innovation" argument, it seems like you and Wada are on the same page. Weird.

Lastly (and this isn't a reply to you WK) is anyone else completely unimpressed with FFXIII's graphics? In some of the trailers where the characters are on huge green open fields with the really big creatures, I said to myself "this looks exactly like the Calm Lands (FFX)..."

I might be tempted to say FFX was just an advanced game graphically, but Killzone 1 and MGS3 were (and are) great looking games, but their PS3-successors make the term "leaps and bounds" seem like an understatement.

Wada does want innovation but he's looking towards the West for it cause despite his strong statements concerning "Japan is over" his solution seems to more about outsourcing to more creative people instead of really working on the mindset of the people at SE. There is a sharp contrast between what he says and what he's actually doing. He says now that he feels they reached a dead end in their thinking and that XIII is looking to be catering to old fans but if he really strongly believed that innovation was needed that much for XIII he would have had the team working on the title to incorporate his new views. I still suspect his recent comment is more of him talking his way out of the few criticisms XIII has received in the press.

In regards to SE's outsourcing, I mean Tri-Ace has been the company that has been developing most of SE's big console titles for the new generation system and from all sources I've checked, they are still an independent company. The remakes of III and IV were done by Matrix and several of their more interesting games in the last few years have been co-developed between other studios and them. While I am perfectly fine with bringing in new blood, it just doesn't seem like SE releases anything in-house anymore. I mean Level 5 is being outsourced to develop the DQ games which you would think a major IP like that would usually stay in-house. It just seems a bit weird to me.

My problem with Wada is that I don't really see much innovation in the titles under his watch. There have been a few good titles and there have definetly been a few attempts that failed. Still, it just doesn't seem like SE has really been putting out much in the last few years, at least nothing that comes off immediately noteworthy. I also return to my main statement that for Wada, innovation means success and money not actually trying something new. He has never crossed me as someone who is willing to stand by the products his company makes. He's basically catering to the masses and covering his own ass.

Looking at XIII, I feel all that's really been altered is the actual combat system (the skill/equipment system sounds like its just streamlined version of previous systems, specifically X) while everything else in the title feels like its made in 2002. X-2 comes across as a much more daring and innovative game (and most people on the forum know how I feel about FFX and its sequel). XIII is being developed for a fanbase that existed almost ten years ago and probably won't appreciate it as much now sadly. Yes, I will agree that graphically it has never impressed me too much. At its worst it looks like X at its best it looks like XII but my overall impression is that it looks like a PS2 game that just happens to support high quality televisions.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Looking at XIII, I feel all that's really been altered is the actual combat system (the skill/equipment system sounds like its just streamlined version of previous systems, specifically X) while everything else in the title feels like its made in 2002. X-2 comes across as a much more daring and innovative game (and most people on the forum know how I feel about FFX and its sequel).

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I don't think that's really giving enough credit here to be honest. Based on everything I've read of FFXIII lately, I have to say that the changes made for the sake of making the story more fast paced, while only being little things here and there, will be huge in terms of how the game feels. I also believe they'll be quite divisive among fans. Many will like the changes, but many won't. As linear as earlier titles actually were, they hid it well, and losing the ability to explore in favour of what sounds like it will be HL2: The RPG in terms of pacing will turn a lot of people off.

They're certainly catering to their fanbase in the sense that many of the staples of FF are in there (job classes, turn based battles, cut scenes, etc.) but the changes they have made are a huge risk on their part.

I think we can only comment on XIII when we've played and finished it.

I'm not sure if Wada was in charge when X was being created, but it is quite a change from the FF formula. The world map, a staple for 9 FFs disappeared. ATB also disappeared (I think that was introduced in 2 or 3), and the summon system was quite different from the previous games. They moved from pre-rendered backgrounds to a fully rendered game. They might be minor, but these changes add up, and create an unique experience.

And X-2 was very, very, very, very different to any other FF before. The combat system was awesome (X or X-2 are my favourite), it had an interesting take on the Job system from V, and it removed linear world progression to create an open-ended mission based system. Yes, there were some premises of the game that were stupid, especially in the story and the outfits, but it was something new.

And XII changed the franchise again, becoming the most Western FF ever. Some people (and I'd probably group myself in here) found that it strayed a little bit too far, but that's innovation.

So I think the last 3 Final Fantasies I have played have showed innovation. However, I do agree that Squenix definitely have not produced any other titles outside of their main franchises that are particularly ground-breaking in the current generation of consoles. There are no Vagrant Stories or Xenogears or Chronos anymore, and their other games seem to be just FF-lite. Which is disappointing.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

I don't think that's really giving enough credit here to be honest. Based on everything I've read of FFXIII lately, I have to say that the changes made for the sake of making the story more fast paced, while only being little things here and there, will be huge in terms of how the game feels. I also believe they'll be quite divisive among fans. Many will like the changes, but many won't. As linear as earlier titles actually were, they hid it well, and losing the ability to explore in favour of what sounds like it will be HL2: The RPG in terms of pacing will turn a lot of people off.

They're certainly catering to their fanbase in the sense that many of the staples of FF are in there (job classes, turn based battles, cut scenes, etc.) but the changes they have made are a huge risk on their part.

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I don't really agree, the pacing looks almost exactly like X's with linear "one road" dungeon design with one large open area that opens up fairly late in the game. This is FFX all over cause it also featured a "one road" dungeon design and X never really encouraged you to back track until the end of the game when you reached Zanarkand and got the airship. X kept jumping you from one plot point to another and despite most of these one road level design they are usually filled to the brim with cutscenes. If the XIII demo was any indication or even what early reviews have said, XIII literally follows the same game design structure as FFX. This comes across a bit weird considering XIII has been in development much longer than even FFXII. Combat is about the only gameplay mechanic that really sounds like its radically different but the level design and pacing are definetly X's.

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Originally Posted by champagne supernova

I think we can only comment on XIII when we've played and finished it.

I'm not sure if Wada was in charge when X was being created, but it is quite a change from the FF formula. The world map, a staple for 9 FFs disappeared. ATB also disappeared (I think that was introduced in 2 or 3), and the summon system was quite different from the previous games. They moved from pre-rendered backgrounds to a fully rendered game. They might be minor, but these changes add up, and create an unique experience.

And X-2 was very, very, very, very different to any other FF before. The combat system was awesome (X or X-2 are my favourite), it had an interesting take on the Job system from V, and it removed linear world progression to create an open-ended mission based system. Yes, there were some premises of the game that were stupid, especially in the story and the outfits, but it was something new.

And XII changed the franchise again, becoming the most Western FF ever. Some people (and I'd probably group myself in here) found that it strayed a little bit too far, but that's innovation.

So I think the last 3 Final Fantasies I have played have showed innovation. However, I do agree that Squenix definitely have not produced any other titles outside of their main franchises that are particularly ground-breaking in the current generation of consoles. There are no Vagrant Stories or Xenogears or Chronos anymore, and their other games seem to be just FF-lite. Which is disappointing.

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Doing a bit of background check, Wada was President of Square before the merger but for how long I don't really know, though from this source it seems like he didn't actually start participating in gaming development for the company until FFX as that appears to be his earliest credit. Even then it was more of a corporate role than actual creative role. Hell just looking at his few gaming credits I can't say he's been part of the best that SE has had to offer in the last decade. Mostly ports or sequels that even fans dislike (Unlimited Saga anyone?).

My feeling in regard to X is moot, though I dislike the game I won't argue it was very different from previous installments but XIII looks like a cut and paste job of X's design in a lot of places without much evidence to suggest they really are trying something new with it, though we won't know til we play the game. XIII may be different than we expect but its difficult not to notice or point out its glaring similarities to the teams last major FF project which was X.

Though the last three major FF titles have been radically different they were all released after large gaps of time and many fans refuse to even recognize some of the entries. The amusing thing is how much the PS3 era appears to be a repeat of the PS2 era with XIII suspiciously looking and sounding like a a variation of X's design and now XIV is also an MMO entry which still has shocked fans despite us already doing this dance last generation. If Wada allows a Western company to make FFXV we might have a repeat of the last generation entirely. ;)

The only thing Wada has really brought forth to SE in the last generation can be pretty much best described in his own words:

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We manufacture content. We wrack our brains for what might sell and what might not, but it's very difficult to hit the jackpot, as it were. Once we've hit it, we have to get all the juice possible out of it. The obvious example is Final Fantasy. If we just sell each one, we end up with only 12 commodities.We have to think what we can do to make more profit out of the series. -Yoichi Wada Interview from GI gamesindustry.biz interview

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Wada's plan has been mostly getting new recruits to work on ports and also to milk past installments for easy money. XIII itself is being marketed to appeal to a wider audience even. Don't like FFXIII, well why don't you play Agito or Versus instead and they can be your FFXIII. Well make different types of games slap the same number on them and "bam!" everyone is happy. At least that's how the whole XIII project feels sometimes.

With the exception of FFXII for me, the last decade has been a haze for me from SE as its mostly involved ports (Do you realize that FFI has been released six times in the last decade and I am being generous by counting all the cell phone ports as one), remakes, or special guests stars of past FF titles with the occasional crappy sequel. They've spent the last decade hiding behind the past. When they finally do take risks, the shirk away from them when they don't turn out so well.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I don't really agree, the pacing looks almost exactly like X's with linear "one road" dungeon design with one large open area that opens up fairly late in the game. This is FFX all over cause it also featured a "one road" dungeon design and X never really encouraged you to back track until the end of the game when you reached Zanarkand and got the airship. X kept jumping you from one plot point to another and despite most of these one road level design they are usually filled to the brim with cutscenes. If the XIII demo was any indication or even what early reviews have said, XIII literally follows the same game design structure as FFX. This comes across a bit weird considering XIII has been in development much longer than even FFXII. Combat is about the only gameplay mechanic that really sounds like its radically different but the level design and pacing are definetly X's.

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I fail to see how you could say the pacing is the same as X when:
A) Neither of us has played the game, and
B) All indications I'm seeing are that it does away with everything that could possibly hold up the story progression for the first 20-30 hours (including shorter cut scenes than most FF fans were probably expecting).

What I'm reading about seems to imply a game that will move along a lot faster than X ever did (if I had one complaint about X`s pacing it`s it's that it was slow as hell even when it was moving at a fast pace). Just because two games are fairly linear doesn`t mean that they`re pacing will be identical, or even remotely similar. But we`ll see when the game comes out.

The point I was originally getting at anyway which you totally missed (because I admittedly didn`t explain it well enough) is that taking out all towns and most NPC`s in favour of a game that moves along much faster is a pretty big risk on their part because a great many RPG purists will vilify the move even if it does make for a better paced story. But again, we`ll see how it all shakes out in the end. For my money, if the story actually manages to not only be interesting, but move along at a faster pace than previous entries because of the game design choices made, I might very well like this entry.

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Originally Posted by Rad Bromance

I'm all about new. Seriously, I love all the old FFs but XII was a freaking breath of fresh air.

Can someone explain to me what an "up to date" game is though? I hear this a lot now about both gameplay and graphics...like, if it isn't an FPS that looks like Crysis and plays like Halo now it's somehow "behind the times".

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I disliked intensely the "fresh air' claim.
Nothing personal against you friend.

I 've thought about making a thread about what SHOULD be in an FF game.
For me I liked the towns and villages and npcs talking to you and finding out little nuggets of info from them.

Up to date to me has a lot to do with technical graphics abilities, reaching the zenith of what is possible technologically with the system.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

I fail to see how you could say the pacing is the same as X when:
A) Neither of us has played the game, and
B) All indications I'm seeing are that it does away with everything that could possibly hold up the story progression for the first 20-30 hours (including shorter cut scenes than most FF fans were probably expecting).

What I'm reading about seems to imply a game that will move along a lot faster than X ever did (if I had one complaint about X`s pacing it`s it's that it was slow as hell even when it was moving at a fast pace). Just because two games are fairly linear doesn`t mean that they`re pacing will be identical, or even remotely similar. But we`ll see when the game comes out.

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When I think pacing I'm talking about the whole package and considering the game part of the title is pretty straightforward, I highly doubt I'll be dawdling around like I usually do to explore or chat. My playthroughs of X despite being long winded in parts are fairly quick so I would say X is kinda fast paced even if the story isn't. Course I should have made my point much clearer. X is fast paced to me cause there is nothing on the gameplay side to keep me interested for long so I basically stick with on rails storyline and basically this is what I'm getting at is that XIII is pretty much doing the same except its at least being a bit up front about it.

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The point I was originally getting at anyway which you totally missed (because I admittedly didn`t explain it well enough) is that taking out all towns and most NPC`s in favour of a game that moves along much faster is a pretty big risk on their part because a great many RPG purists will vilify the move even if it does make for a better paced story. But again, we`ll see how it all shakes out in the end. For my money, if the story actually manages to not only be interesting, but move along at a faster pace than previous entries because of the game design choices made, I might very well like this entry.

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Once again, I'm not terribly blown away by this as I feel VIII and X have already done this. Beyond the initial story purposes of bringing you to a town neither game ever offered reasons to ever use towns. Even the shops are so poorly utilized that I cannot imagine anyone using them beyond the first town cause you easily and abundantly acquire everything you ever need on the field and one of my major complaints with both titles is how poorly the gameplay elements work together and eventually become very one-sided. As far as I'm concerned, VIII and X really don't have "towns" in a traditional RPG sense. Hell Xenosaga II for the most part beat XIII to this so I can't fathom how this is really a "new" risk.

As for the pacing of the story, it will all really depend on how good the plot and cast are. Personally, I feel that its a no-no to sacrifice gameplay elements purely for a story in a video game. By that, I mean to streamline the gameplay to point of being irrelevant to the plot as its implemented in a way to say it was mostly an after-thought. At best XIII will be a cinematic experience like Xenosaga Episode I , at worst it will be a tedious interactive movie like FFX. We'll know later down the road.

development in FFXII for gameplay.
That's a much bigger mistake in my view than the reverse.:roll2
I didn't feel FFX was a tedious interactive movie but the previous poster is entitled to his/her opinion.
I thought FFXII was very tedious.

I don't think that FFXIII will meet all our expectations.

It will be good in some ways and fail in others. A mixed bag.

:)

To be fair, I'm not completely against the idea of linear gameplay design and having story be a major focus but I feel when you go too far with one way or the other I feel the game becomes terribly unbalanced. What I really seek is something more like the old days where both story and gameplay played their part equally as opposed to one being more important to the other. Obviously I don't feel XIII looks to be fulfilling those needs but its too early to tell I guess. To me it looks and sounds from reviews to be an interactive movie.

The PS2 generation of RPGs has kinda shown me that a great story does not make a great game. Xenosaga II was a title that had a terribly linear design, terrible combat, and had a ratio of 5 to 1 of story versus gameplay and it was probably one of the bigger disappointments for me last gen. Obviously FFX lands in here as well for me but I've been beating that horse a lot as of late (though god knows it deserves it ;) ) but what I find is that when story overtakes gameplay by a massive amount like my two examples, I honestly wonder why I should bother playing it? I could easily get the same experience from both titles by watching the cutscenes on Youtube rather than force myself to play through the short but awful gameplay parts. That is really how I feel these games are designed. If these are games, we might as well count Advent Children as a game cause its where the series seems to be heading sometimes cause the gameplay side is being reduced more and more.

Granted I understand the reverse is true as well. I never cared for sandbox titles or open ended worlds with a loose plot cause I quickly lose interest due to lack of incentive. I sometimes get so lost in the freedom of the title I feel it would be better to just write or create my own story rather than play in another person's world that lacks narrative and focus.

Lately, I've been replaying FFIX and I feel this game stills hold the ideal (for me at least) way of designing a game, its got its faults but I've never been bored and I find the gameplay to be just as fun and engaging as the story and characters, its not one sided. I generally play games for the whole package and while I truly enjoy my RP, I'm also a big fan of the game part and I feel gameplay in RPGs are a little more than just a combat system, random encounters, and boss battles. I also have side quests, mini-games, and exploration that have been slowly being removed from SE titles of late.

Its hard to give a damn about a world when its all relegated to the story (just as the reverse is true about all gameplay and no plot). At that point the game only has the chance to appeal to its audience from the perspective of a film, with visuals and dialogue but games have the ability to transcend this cause they bring in an interactive element and I feel when all I'm doing is transporting my characters from plot point A to Plot point B and its literally a straight line to that point, I feel the developers and designers have failed from a design perspective and in an immersion. Story segments might as well end with four choices popping up:

Save
Shop
Battle random enemies
Next Cutscene

Cause at least we can really streamline this and not even have to waste our time with dungeons if thought isn't even going to be put into it. :roll2

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Story segments might as well end with four choices popping up:

Save
Shop
Battle random enemies
Next Cutscene

Cause at least we can really streamline this and not even have to waste our time with dungeons if thought isn't even going to be put into it. :roll2

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Though you meant it to be satirical that reminds me a lot of FFT, which worked out rather well plot and game play wise.