Batman - I really enjoyed the earlier movies, but the new ones are easily much better films by all standards.
Battlestar Galactica - I don't care what you have to say about the changes they made, the series was smurfing amazing. Very well done.
That's all I got.
Last of the Mohicans was one of my favorite movies growing up, it's smurfing awesome.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moon Rabbits
I forgot about that one. I agree on all counts pretty much. The original Ring was about as scary as Super Mario Bros. and wasn't told half as well as the remake. Not that the remake scared me either, but I would still say it was scarier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian
The Office. :)
After careful consideration I think that Anastasia (1997 version) and 12 Monkeys (1995 version) are also better than the previous versions.
Also, I'd like to address the Batman issue even though it might go off-topic a bit:
So, I take it you didn't like his music in, say, Edward Scissorhands or Sleepy Hollow? Fair enough; Elfman's style is quite varied and can go from comedy to tragedy in the blink of an eye (and is sometimes very bizarre to say the least), so his music is a good example of "love it or hate it". As for me, I liked the way Elfman's themes and musical constructions fit Burton's films. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Vivi22
Yes, I don't think Elfman's music per se would've worked in Nolanverse Batman because of the different focus of Burton's and Nolan's films. However, I do think that Zimmer and Newton-Howard didn't pour out as much of their talent in their two Batman score than they should've (and we all know that they're capable of so much better, which makes their lack of interest in the Batman score especially jarring). The manipulated one-note Joker theme in The Dark Knight was a bold move but apart from that the music follows especially Zimmer's comfort zone a bit too much. In my opinion the score doesn't give me the feeling that I'm listening to Batman; it makes me think of The Rock, Broken Arrow, Peacemaker and such. In other words it's generic and doesn't quite have a recognizable identity like Elfman's and Shirley Walker's Batman scores had.Quote:
So aside from the lack of an iconic Batman theme, I do actually feel that the new Batman films had a soundtrack that suited the style a lot better. Not that Elfman's music didn't really suit the Burton films, but I've already established my disdain for them. I'm not sure what Tim Burton was basing them on, but it wasn't really Batman.
I see both Burtonverse and Nolanverse Batman films as pretty much equal, and I like both of them. They're so different on so many levels that it's quite hard to compare them fairly, though. What I like about Nolanverse is that it actually gives more time to Batman whereas Burtonverse was more fascinated with the villains who often stole the spotlight from Batman himself. Acting is good on both, and so is cinematography for the most part.Quote:
Originally Posted by Raistlin
However, there are problems as well. First of all, both Michael Keaton and Kevin Conroy (from the live-action and animated Batman, respectively) handled the distinction between Batman and Bruce Wayne's voices well in a classy way. Christian Bale is acceptable in Begins but his Batman voice goes way overboard in TDK and sounds like he has throat cancer. I'm sure Nolan and Bale could've thought of a better way to show off Batman's voice than making it sound so unintelligible at times that it became borderline parody.
Second, the cutting is downright crazy in Begins and TDK. While in Burton's films you actually get to linger in a scene to get the proper mood, Nolan's action scenes in particular use so much rapid, MTV-like cutting that it seriously distorts the narrative. I admit that this technique works at first when Batman first shows himself to thugs in Begins as the rapid cutting shows the spreading fear among the thugs as this unknown vigilante attacks them. However, by the time we get to the final confrontation in Begins, the rapid cutting is still there when it serves no purpose and the final battle would've benefited from longer shots to show the duel between mentor and student. It's obvious that the actors actually learned complex fight moves (as can be seen in behind-the-scenes documentaries) but the rapid cutting in escape from the League of Shadows and the final train battle in particular ruin whatever fight choreography there was and thus you never quite get the thrill you would have if a scene was a few seconds longer before it cut to the next scene. Most of these cut examples also apply to TDK which is a bit better than Begins but still nowhere near the consistency of Burton's films.
Third, there's the pacing issue. Both of Burton's films have pretty good pacing overall. As for Nolan's films, I think Begins as a whole is more cohesive than TDK which dropped the ball at some point in the editing room. I have a feeling that Nolan actually shot a lot more material for TDK but had to cut it out, but in so doing he also hurt the flow of narrative a lot. You basically already have the climax with the Joker and then you suddenly get the prolonged dénouement with Two-Face which has its reason as far as narrative goes but could've been handled way better narrative-wise. There are also a lot of issues that should've been explored better such as the two traitorous police officers, some random remarks which seemingly make no sense (the "erratic" body count comment, for instance), plot holes etc. I have a feeling that the scenes that ended up on the cutting floor might've been dedicated to these issues so maybe they could've improved TDK had they been kept in.
Fourth, and perhaps the most subjective issue, is the set. What I like about Burton's Batman films is that they have what I like to call "carnivalesque gothic" sets. In other words Gotham City kind of reminds one of a city which mixes the past and the present together whle also having impressive gothic architecture. It captures the spirit of the Batman comics I read when I was young and it makes Gotham City alive... as if it's a character in and of itself. It's ominous yet beautiful. However, in my opinion the Nolan films have no such atmosphere. Gotham City in Nolanverse looks almost like any other city and loses its unique appeal in the process. When I watched TDK, I kept thinking that I've seen all of this before. It's basically like a copy of Heat, The Departed or any other crime film out there. This is likely what Nolan is after in his strive for "realism" but in so doing he also sacrifices the city which becomes almost as generic as the musical score.
Despite these criticisms I'd like to state once more that I do like both Burtonverse and Nolanverse Batman films. Both have their pros and cons, but I just want to point out that there are still quite a few things for Nolan to improve by the time the third Batman film hits the silver screen.
Anyways, thanks for the comments. I appreciate your thoughts. :)
I won't quote your post Kossage because it's really long and I don't want to clutter things up, but I will respond with my thoughts on your problems with the Nolan Batman movies.
Bales Batman voice didn't really bother me. In fact I liked that he tried to have such a drastic difference between his normal voice and Batman's solely because I think anyone who knew the two in either the Burton films and the Animated Series (as much as I love it) would have to be fairly stupid not to hear the similarity and start to wonder. Yes they distinguished their Batman voices from Bruce Wayne's, but not so much that I'd think they would fool anyone to be honest.
The cutting in the action scenes in the Nolan movies didn't bother me either. I do get annoyed by the fast cuts that many directors feel they have to make since the Bourne Identity, but to be honest, I had no trouble following what was going on in Nolan's movies so I can't fault him too much for it like I could other directors who have done the same.
The pacing didn't bother me in the Dark Knight either. I actually liked when they gave almost a false climax part way through. It gave you a false sense of things being wrapped up soon when in fact they were just about to really wind up and it takes you off guard. The sense of security the audience has matches how the police and Batman were undoubtedly feeling when the Joker was captured and then the :bou::bou::bou::bou: really hit the fan.
As for Gotham itself; like I said before, I actually liked the set design quite a bit in the Burton films, but I didn't mind that Gotham in Nolan's films felt like a real city. I think it served it well to be honest, and there were still touches, especially in Begins, that made it it's own and really drove home that even though it was like a real city it was a much more run down and dreary place than most. I even liked that the city itself felt cleaner and brighter through most of The Dark Knight, kind of echoing the fact that Batman did a great deal to clean the city up, and again, luring the audience into a false sense of security visually.
As for the Burton films, they really have too many problems for me to take them seriously. Jack Nicholson does a great job of playing Jack Nicholson the clown, but his portrayal of the Joker as a crazy mob boss was not true to the character. He also failed pretty miserably at coming off as menacing. Yeah he killed a bunch of people and even treated it all as one big joke, but he never really did anything that made him seem like the threat he was in the comics or as creepy and frightening as he should be. On top of that you have Bruce Wayne who is apparently so reclusive that people don't even know what he looks like, which is pretty much the opposite of how he should be portrayed given part of his cover as Batman is pretending to be an irresponsible spoiled Billionaires son. And of course, Burton had him blow up a factory full of Jokers henchman in the first one, leaving us to conclude that they all died in the blast. Maybe it was just poor editing, but having Batman kill is almost unforgivable.
I could probably go on, but it's been a few years since I watched either movie. Suffice it to say that the last time I watched Batman I laughed the whole way through at just how campy it was and how far off base most of the characters were. I won't fault someone for liking them, but I find them unwatchable these days.
Jack Nicholson is the weak link in Tim Burton's Batman, but then that's what happens when you pay an actor an obscene amount of money (he earnt something like $60 million from it apparently) and give him carte blanche to do what he wants. It might be one reason why Batman Returns is better (it's one of my favourite comic book adaptations ever), as the villains in that are stronger. As for Bruce Wayne, I don't see any problem with how he's portrayed, and I prefer Michael Keaton to Christian Bale. But then I prefer Michael Keaton as an actor anyway. In the end, Nolan and Burton are very different directors and you can see that in their Batmans - one opts for gothic tragedy, the other for gritty realism. As they say, your mileage may vary, especially if you're a fan of the comics.
(is this the batman thread now? xD)
Batman Dark Knight -
not particularly a big Batman fan, but this film was edgy, dark and pretty entertaining. However, only better than the Tim Burton movies, (the original 70s series and movie are still superior).
The Producers (2005)-
Gotta agree with Jessweeee, loved the newer one, The duo make a good team, play well off eachother.
Rebuild of Evangelion -
Everything in it is just... better.. in every way..
Super Mario All Stars -
It took all the win that is in Mario games and stuffed them all together in one cartridge, yes please!
Prince of Persia (classic) XBLA -
Released on the Xbox Live Arcade, Is a remake of the original 1989 game. The controls are so smooth and a jow to play with.
Prince of Persia (2008) -
A reboot on the entire series, I found this game also much more enjoyable to play with fluid controls and very interesting dialogue throughout.
Street Fighter Alpha 3 -
a remake of previous Alpha games, Alpha 3 has my favorite control system and art style out of all the Street Fighter games.
Casino Royale (2006) -
I was stupid enough to buy the 1967 spoof version many years earlier and it was terrible, extremely bad. This version is far superior.
Dirty Pair Flash -
Everything about it appeals more to me than the 1985 series, Designs, story scenarios and even the English dub for it, I liked. Still one of my more enjoyable 90s Animé shows to watch.
...but.. the first four games were made to be more of a puzzle game. Anniversary was childs play in comparison to the original games, no challenge at all. =[Quote:
Originally Posted by Jessweeee♪
Kossage: I agree with you completely on two points regarding The Dark Knight. First, the Batman voice was obnoxious, and I think you'll be hard-pressed to find someone that disagrees with that. Second, the pacing concern. The beginning of TDK especially was filled with these quick scenes that jumped around and it felt almost haphazardly lumped together, and when I first saw it I was starting to get concerned until the movie picked up a bit.
I do like the acting in both the original and remakes, but I think the writing (mostly character development) and villains are treated much better in the new series. You're dead-on that the villains of the original sometimes stole the spotlight from Batman that really wasn't developed as much as he could've been as a result. I also think the campy atmosphere of the original movies, while common in comic-book adaptations, took a bit away from how effective some of the typically darker Batman elements were.
Only scene in the beginning of aTDK I felt didn't belong was the robbery scene. What did it actually have to do with the movie?
I love Batman returns too.
Batman's voice didn't really bother me too much. It was realistic. The only time it sounded funny to me was at the last scene wher eBatman fell off the cliff. Of course you're going to sound a little scratchy after just falling twenty-five feet. I also doubt anyone cannot sound stupid ever trying to constantly disguise their voice.
BB and TDK were great reboots. I can't really comment on too many others though.
Those were the first two that popped into my head and probably the only two which I can think of at the moment. I like how they both took relatively tame films and turned them into hardcore gore fests.Quote:
Originally Posted by charliepanayi
Gone in 60 Seconds
*insert obvious batman reboot*
*sigh* No. I liked it. It didn't completely butcher the original. I enjoy most movies for what they are.Quote:
Originally Posted by I'm my own MILFare you completely bakedQuote:
Originally Posted by Guardian XIII
Edit: Except for Eragon, but that wasn't a remake, just really, really :bou::bou::bou::bou:ty.
3:10 to Yuma. The ending to the original was just lame. The ending to the remake, much more believable.
The Departed. It took a while for me to think this was better than Infernal Affairs, but it's finally happened.
EDIT: Oh, also I love Elfman's music in Edward Scissorhands. His stuff is truly amazing.
Yeah, Burton's Batman films were good. Especially Batman Returns. The Joel Schumacher movies were terrible.Quote:
Originally Posted by Levian