FMV vs. Diversity

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

Oh, I'm talking JRPG, that's for certain. I'm just saying that FMVs can restrict the variety of options you get in a game. It was mentioned in another thread (where I requested the return of unlockable characters) that you can't do it anymore due to FMV sequences being done with set characters.

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Actually, that is not the big problem. I mean, it's easy enough to just exclude the optional characters from the FMVs (as happened with Vincent and Yuffie in VII).

No, the real problem is the rise in voice acting. The resources and effort it takes to make a new character with full voice acting (and the more detailed graphics) is considered not worth it if the character is not going to be seen by most players.

Personally, I think it's a silly reason, since all the players who love the game would get the unlockable characters, but this has actually been a confirmed by BioWare as the reason why certain characters from ME1 only got cameo parts in ME2. (SPOILER)The characters could die, so they won't be accessible to everyone, so they get cut to cameos. Given that we've already seen Square-Enix's position on things that require too many resources with XIII's lack of towns, I think similar reasoning will hold true for them.

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No, the real problem is the rise in voice acting. The resources and effort it takes to make a new character with full voice acting (and the more detailed graphics) is considered not worth it if the character is not going to be seen by most players.

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Oh yeah, the FMV deal is just an extension of the real enemy.

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Not really, the increased level of geometry, quality of special effects, shading and amount of objects in a scene can still (and will always) be much greater in prerendered video.

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As I said, the same things just in greater detail. There is now way the FFVII engine could have more than approximated stuff like the plate falling or the sister ray firing. In FFXIII FMVs did nothing that the engine couldn't, it just did stuff with a marginally higher level of detail.

When I was younger I was more impressed by FMVs, but I now just don't really care whether they exist or not in the game. Gameplay seems more important than anything.

I'm playing Star Ocean 2 right now, which has almost no FMVs (and frankly, the existing ones only ever show buildings and whatnot, not people), and I don't give a hoot because that game has so, so, so much extra content.

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Originally Posted by Shin Gouken

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Originally Posted by Mirage

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

With graphical rendering as advanced as it is I don't see the need for FMVs at all anymore. In the PS1 days FMVs showed things that the game engine never could, now all they do is show things in higher resolution. A complete waste of resources, imo.

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Not really, the increased level of geometry, quality of special effects, shading and amount of objects in a scene can still (and will always) be much greater in prerendered video.

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And alot of the time you don't get half a second to apreciate the "shading" as an airship whizzes by.

I agree that FMV scenes are prettier to look at it. But it's not nessessary. If people can play FFVI with basic graphics and no FMV, or FFVII with FMV's that don't even compare with the standard gameplay graphics of FFXIII, then why is it so important to have mass amounts of FMV scenes now?

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Oh, I never said I needed them either, I'm just delivering the facts about how much better they actually are. :p

My stance on crap like this is that if the fancy CG movies don't make the gameplay development suffer, I don't really care

I haven't been utterly "wow" by an FF's graphics since FFVIII. After that, it kinda became the norm so having super good detail really doesn't make the game more endearing to me too much, though I have been impressed by subtle things like body language but you don't need the character to look realistic to pull this off so yeah...

I'm going for gameplay diversity, in fact I'm actually kinda bored of the FF series continuing on making better looking human characters and wouldn't mind if the series went into a more stylish design like FFIX or Dissidia. We get it SE, you make awesome graphics but I would kill to have you drop the graphics in favor of gameplay options like more party members in a battle, the ability to see armor affect the characters designs (easier if the detail was a bit lower) and more side-quests and minor branching paths in the story. DQVIII and Persona 4 have shown you don't need super realistic graphics to make excellent gameplay and in-depth characters, so stop hiding behind the crutch of graphics.

As a side-topic, I wonder if people would be happy for voice acting to disappear in order to allow for more gameplay options, as opposed to FMV.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

As a side-topic, I wonder if people would be happy for voice acting to disappear in order to allow for more gameplay options, as opposed to FMV.

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I would like to see them gone regardless. I've never really felt any strong connection to any character in a voice acted game. I wonder if this is because of the voice acting or if they just suck at making me care about characters anymore.

It also irritates the hell out of me sitting and watching them blab through some boring cutscene when I could have read it in 1/5 the time.

I really liked the characters in XIII and their voice acting for the most part was of good quality, but I do admit that I've always felt far more attached to non-voice-acted characters (X and XII were terrible from my perspective). I think it's because you get to put your own voice to a character in your head as you read things on the screen. It also allows you to better connect with the music, I find, which might also add to the emotive aspects.

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Originally Posted by Rantzien

Yup! If it's either or, I would... It's always so intriguing to see your choices have a real effect of some sort.

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Sums up my thoughts on the matter very well. :choc2:

Edit: And on the topic of voice acting, I'd very much vote to kill it off to save gameplay value or to save time and space to include more in-game options. Actually, don't even give me more options; just get rid of the voice acting.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

I think it's because you get to put your own voice to a character in your head as you read things on the screen. It also allows you to better connect with the music, I find, which might also add to the emotive aspects.

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Very true. I found that the case for lower detail games in general. I love the FF6 sprites but hate the concept art/FMVs/Dissidia models, etc. Had they appeared like that in game I probably would have liked it much less. But that is a topic for another day.

Interesting point about the music. I was playing FF7 on the PSP yesterday and I started thinking about how music in games is much less prominent than it used to be. It is now more of a background element. In older games it was the first thing you noticed when you stepped into a new area, and really set the tone.

You know, the more I think about FMV's (and the more I replay of MGS4 as much as I love it and it's story) the more I realize that I don't want much more than the bare minimum of FMV's at all. I have no problem with voice acting, I even love it in a lot of games (like the MGS series), but hours upon hours of FMV's and being interrupted every 15 minutes so I can watch something instead of playing it annoys me these days. More games, including RPG's I think could learn from the example that Valve has set, and more importantly, would do well to not have the coolest parts of the game be things that I sit back and passively watch.

It seems the older I get the more I want to actually play the game instead of being a passive observer.

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Originally Posted by Loony BoB

I really liked the characters in XIII and their voice acting for the most part was of good quality, but I do admit that I've always felt far more attached to non-voice-acted characters (X and XII were terrible from my perspective). I think it's because you get to put your own voice to a character in your head as you read things on the screen. It also allows you to better connect with the music, I find, which might also add to the emotive aspects.

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Quoted for the truth. :cool:

While I don't necessarily mind VA work, I do find that it makes stomaching bad dialogue more acceptable. Playing through the DS version of IV, I couldn't help but laugh through some of my favorite scenes cause I never realized how bad the dialogue can be til it was read out loud. :D

I also agree with BoB and VeloZer0 concerning how much music has really been short changed in the last generation. A few games had some good soundtracks but I rarely felt any of them blended the music with the storytelling as well as they did in the old days.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

I also agree with BoB and VeloZer0 concerning how much music has really been short changed in the last generation. A few games had some good soundtracks but I rarely felt any of them blended the music with the storytelling as well as they did in the old days.

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To be fair, it's tough to have the music take center stage as much as it used to when games have such rich and complex sound design these days. Games didn't used to have nearly as much go into the sound design, partly because the soundchips in consoles would have committed suicide had developers tried. The thicker the sounds get the less you have to rely on music alone to convey the mood and the harder it is even if you tried.

If you`d like a recent game where the music takes center stage a bit more though, then check out Heavy Rain. The music is a huge part of the experience in that game.

I think, while sound design does certainly come into it, they could still do themselves a favour by making it so that every footstep doesn't need to make a distinct sound. Can't these people just wear sneakers? =| Also, turn up the music for great justice, turn down the effects.

The number of distinct footstep sounds doesn't really have anything to do with how much the music can stand out. It's all about the sheer number of sounds that get played at any given time. Too many and you'd muddy up the mix entirely once you have music playing on top of it, but even when not over done it's hard to make music stand out as much as when the sound design is very sparse.