Bioware listens; plans to "extend" ME3's ending

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by I'm my own MILF

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pete for President

It is ridiculous and a big insult to the story writers and artists. People claiming a different ending aren't writers. They are not professionals. Game developers should not listen to them.

Let's compare it to other great things non-game designers have brought to the game universe. Like the levels made in Little Big Planet and Modnation Racers. Were they good? No; 99% of user-generated content is absolutely unplayable. Why? They are not level designers, just as these people demanding a new ending are NOT story writers. It shouldn't happen.

A dark day in history of gaming.

---

Yeah and 99% of professionally-produced games are terrible and should be avoided at all costs, notwithstanding the paid level designers and storywriters. In point of fact, the tremendously terrible ending to Mass Effect 3 proves very handily that just because someone has a job title does not mean they are above either error or reproach :monster:

I agree with Pike.

---

Agreed that even professionals can make mistakes. As for the 99% professionally-produced games are terrible; I completely lost faith in game critics as well as gamers to decide what games are terrible and what not. I hope some of you can see how demanding gamers have become when we won't even settle for a multi-million dollar production anymore. We're talking about hundreds of people working non-stop for 3 years to bring you this experience, and it's easy to not show any appreciation when you're hanging on your couch. To relate back to my previous 'insult'-statement; it's like telling the cleaning lady 'you've missed a spot'. Deus Ex comes to mind as a good example; I think this game is amazing. People seemed to dislike the boss fights and all of a sudden the game is branded as terrible. Righteous? I don't think so. Last but not least; I can't even imagine managing a production this big with a storyline focus. Maybe this is where the error-part could set in, but I think we all underestimate the difficulty of bringing the storyline across in a production involving hundreds of employees.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iceglow

You're comparing a game trilogy made up of 90% story development to a game like little big planet which is approximately 10% story development. That's like comparing a Chimp to a Human because we share 10% of the same DNA as them. Or an apple and an orange because both are round and both are fruits.

---

I am talking about involving non-professionals in creating or altering the gaming experience. To keep your apple/orange analogy; people telling the grower what their product (be it apples, oranges or kiwi's) should look, taste or feel like, despite hardly having any knowledge of the growth process.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pete for President

I hope some of you can see how demanding gamers have become when we won't even settle for a multi-million dollar production anymore. We're talking about hundreds of people working non-stop for 3 years to bring you this experience, and it's easy to not show any appreciation when you're hanging on your couch. To relate back to my previous 'insult'-statement; it's like telling the cleaning lady 'you've missed a spot'. Deus Ex comes to mind as a good example; I think this game is amazing. People seemed to dislike the boss fights and all of a sudden the game is branded as terrible. Righteous? I don't think so. Last but not least; I can't even imagine managing a production this big with a storyline focus. Maybe this is where the error-part could set in, but I think we all underestimate the difficulty of bringing the storyline across in a production involving hundreds of employees.

---

First, I've never seen anyone say Deus Ex was a terrible game because of the boss fights. No, they weren't very good, and yes, not many really liked them and they were incongruent with the rest of the gameplay, but they didn't ruin the whole game. But when you're complaining about something that hampered an otherwise great experience, what are you going to hear about when there's basically just that and the ending, and neither completely shat on everything that came before?

Second; yes games can cost millions to develop now. Yes, they are made by hundreds of people and can take several years. No I do not underestimate how hard it may be to get the story across in a production with that many people.

But none of that should be an excuse for releasing a troutty product. Or completely dropping the ball at the end of production. Should I feel bad for Bioware when they spent a couple of years making a game which they released with a troutty ending? Am I supposed to lament their plight of working so hard only to smurf it up at the eleventh hour? No, I feel sorry for the fans who got a crappy ending. A game taking millions of dollars, hundreds of people, and years to make does not give them a free pass on anything they screw up. Such a notion is silly.

Quote:

---

I am talking about involving non-professionals in creating or altering the gaming experience. To keep your apple/orange analogy; people telling the grower what their product (be it apples, oranges or kiwi's) should look, taste or feel like, despite hardly having any knowledge of the growth process.

---

You don't have to know anything about how an Apple is grown to know if it tastes like ass. Or in the case of ME3's ending, to know that that Apple tastes like a Mango.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Pete for President

Deus Ex comes to mind as a good example; I think this game is amazing. People seemed to dislike the boss fights and all of a sudden the game is branded as terrible.

---

Well sure that would be a problem if it had actually happened. As it stands what happened was everyone said "holy trout the new DX is actually amazing, the boss fights are out of place and badly implemented but they can't do much to mar a truly superb game".

i don't give a toss about your artistic vision

particularly when it is so lame

i pay you money

now do as i say

i say have a krogan bang miranda up the butt until she explodes, and then kai leng, then allers, and then councillor udina, then the smurfing salarians and the quarians, then that reporter lady

make that the ending

edit:

actually you know what

i would rather have dlc that meant kai leng just did not happen rather than rejigging the ending

literally the worst character i have ever seen

IM A SPACE NINJA HEH HEH IM A BADASS. pfft! i farted. oh no i need a gunship to win my battles and BLEH BLEH TINY SWORD

seriously

dlc that trout out first bioware.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

Actually there was something pointed out that it could come out sometime before spring 2013 or something xD So it might actually not come out till who knows when. It's great that they are doing it but I'm worried about how this will affect the gaming industry. If enough people bitch, video games have to be altered? I dunno. I don't want people to be bitching about every ending of every game form now on.

---

Fallout 3 would like to point out that it already set the precedent with its Broken Steel DLC, thus that argument is moot.

Quote:

---

I hope some of you can see how demanding gamers have become when we won't even settle for a multi-million dollar production anymore. We're talking about hundreds of people working non-stop for 3 years to bring you this experience, and it's easy to not show any appreciation when you're hanging on your couch. To relate back to my previous 'insult'-statement; it's like telling the cleaning lady 'you've missed a spot'. Deus Ex comes to mind as a good example; I think this game is amazing. People seemed to dislike the boss fights and all of a sudden the game is branded as terrible. Righteous? I don't think so. Last but not least; I can't even imagine managing a production this big with a storyline focus. Maybe this is where the error-part could set in, but I think we all underestimate the difficulty of bringing the storyline across in a production involving hundreds of employees.

---

If a waiter brings me a piece of cheesecake with a bone in it, I complain, get it taken back, replaced, and charged nothing for the entire meal.

The ending was broken, it did not match anything from the rest of the series. Themes, tone, lore, character traits, plot points, all thrown out the window.

Perhaps more importantly, specific statements made about the ending by the devs even a week before release were outright fabrications. I complain when I don't get what I pay for. That's not "being entitled" it's being a smart consumer.

I don't care how many hours or dollars they spent on the project, if they produce crap, I'm going to complain about it.


And, yeah, we aren't going to be happy with the extended cut. Why? Because it doesn't fix any of the problems.

I like that everyone likes to bring up the fallout 3 thing like I don't already know about it.

The difference between Fallout 3 doing it and Bioware doing it is that while the ending of Fallout 3 was kinda a ":(" they did not have the uproar that Bioware did. People were not as vocally upset about it. Ergo it is not a moot point thank you very much. Go suck a Popsicle.

I'm disappointed that they're giving in. Whether the ending is good or bad, it's Bioware's ending to Bioware's game.

You don't see HBO releasing an extended ending to The Sopranos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Roto13

You don't see HBO releasing an extended ending to The Sopranos.

---

A fairly famous example getting thrown around lately with the whole ME3 thing is the fact that Sherlock Holmes didn't die in "The Final Problem". He apparently did because Arthur Conan Doyle wanted to get away from the character, but brought him back later due to public outcry.

No, HBO didn't release an extended Sopranos ending. But they didn't have to. Nor did Arthur Conan Doyle, and nor did Bioware have to update the ending to ME3. It was a good idea for them to at least make the attempt though given how terrible the ending was, and with their fans unconditional love of them waning a bit as of late.

I think everyone was overreacting to the ending. But I do think this is kind of cool :excited:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Freya

I like that everyone likes to bring up the fallout 3 thing like I don't already know about it.

The difference between Fallout 3 doing it and Bioware doing it is that while the ending of Fallout 3 was kinda a ":(" they did not have the uproar that Bioware did. People were not as vocally upset about it. Ergo it is not a moot point thank you very much. Go suck a Popsicle.

---

So a small fraction of your fanbase (read: customers) complain, and it's ok to change it.

But a large fraction of your fanbase (again, customers) complain, and you should ignore them.

I think you need to study basic economics again.

I never said it was okay for fallout to change it either. :monster: I think you need to stop really valid point and i'm impressed by your thinking.ning it.

what
a
bunch
of pushovers

bioware from here on in every publisher is going to beat you for your lunch money.

A bit late to the thread but hopefully don't get a ding for resurrecting it.

For those saying fans always complain about endings I say this is different. Everyone here knows how much of a fan I am of FFX and Tidus / Yuna. The ending on FFX killed Tidus, Auron, Jecht, left questions unanswered and never got this uproar. Why ? It was WELL WRITTEN and completely in sync with the story so far. Of course I bitched, and every other fan of the Yuna / tidus romance bitched, we wanted more. And we gladly payed more when FFX2 showed up. We didn't feel cheated out of hundreds of hours.
FF7 ? Aeris ?
People bitch when their favorite characters die, but never to the tune of raising 80 thousand dollars in a week for charity. Never with such ire. I personally have not reached the ending on ME3, I just passed Kai Leng's appearance and have to agree with Psy. They killed "Auron"!! There is this badass cool guy on ME2, Thane, he reminds me a lot of Auron. He gets some 15 lines on ME3 and 90% of those are about death and dying, and he gets killed by a ninja wannabe at random in the middle of the game. Awful! I saw Tidus, Auron and Jecht die and it sucked but it was well written. Here in ME3 they cure a plague that has been haunting the krogan species for 300 years and they let "Auron" die in a hospital bed ? Lame.

This game is all about saving the galaxy and i hear in the end you save nothing and the protagonist dies. Sounds to me it is what my teacher in writing class said "Too many dying in the ending shows a writer too lazy to deal with tying up plot threads. Kill them all is the simplest answer to the conundrum but is also the one that will tell everyone you can't write for trout"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renmiri

This game is all about saving the galaxy and i hear in the end you save nothing and the protagonist dies. Sounds to me it is what my teacher in writing class said "Too many dying in the ending shows a writer too lazy to deal with tying up plot threads. Kill them all is the simplest answer to the conundrum but is also the one that will tell everyone you can't write for trout"

---

I thought your entire post was awesomely well written Ren, been a while since I saw something that well written on here we've all become lazy I think.

I selected the last paragraph for a quote though because of a reason. I like the quote I think it's damn true with one singe exception. There is a series of Warhammer 40,000 novels called Gaunts Ghosts written by an author named Dan Abnett.

He is writing the series until he essentially has no characters left to write about. Or until he can no longer get funding for the series. It's a brilliant series in my opinion about a regiment of soldiers from a dead planet, their world gone they're the final few survivors fighting until they have won their own planet and retired or died out. He kills main characters off in entire slews, one book saw about 20 characters you'd spent 6 books getting to know and love die in one chapter! It's however awesomely well written the idea that eventually there will be none of the Ghosts left makes each death feel immensely powerful "a ghost died today" kind of feeling even if there's 60 - 100 dead in a book you feel the deaths of each Ghost keenly. Now if he'd simply kept the Ghosts to themselves they'd be well below fighting strength by now. So to keep them as a regiment he's recruited new soldiers from other worlds which have become "ghost worlds" to fill the ranks, they're the survivors of wars what left entire planets dead or dying with nothing left to call their own. Yet you still keenly feel that whilst certain soldiers from the new recruits become favourites or awesome characters in their own right, the books are firmly centred on the Tanith core of the regiment and their commander Gaunt.

So whilst not a bad quote it's not always necessarily true in every circumstance, there are ways that "kill everyone" becomes more powerful than having the characters live.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iceglow

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Renmiri

This game is all about saving the galaxy and i hear in the end you save nothing and the protagonist dies. Sounds to me it is what my teacher in writing class said "Too many dying in the ending shows a writer too lazy to deal with tying up plot threads. Kill them all is the simplest answer to the conundrum but is also the one that will tell everyone you can't write for tit"

---

I thought your entire post was awesomely well written Ren, been a while since I saw something that well written on here we've all become lazy I think.

I selected the last paragraph for a quote though because of a reason. I like the quote I think it's damn true with one singe exception. There is a series of Warhammer 40,000 novels called Gaunts Ghosts written by an author named Dan Abnett.

He is writing the series until he essentially has no characters left to write about. Or until he can no longer get funding for the series. It's a brilliant series in my opinion about a regiment of soldiers from a dead planet, their world gone they're the final few survivors fighting until they have won their own planet and retired or died out. He kills main characters off in entire slews, one book saw about 20 characters you'd spent 6 books getting to know and love die in one chapter! It's however awesomely well written the idea that eventually there will be none of the Ghosts left makes each death feel immensely powerful "a ghost died today" kind of feeling even if there's 60 - 100 dead in a book you feel the deaths of each Ghost keenly. Now if he'd simply kept the Ghosts to themselves they'd be well below fighting strength by now. So to keep them as a regiment he's recruited new soldiers from other worlds which have become "ghost worlds" to fill the ranks, they're the survivors of wars what left entire planets dead or dying with nothing left to call their own. Yet you still keenly feel that whilst certain soldiers from the new recruits become favourites or awesome characters in their own right, the books are firmly centred on the Tanith core of the regiment and their commander Gaunt.

So whilst not a bad quote it's not always necessarily true in every circumstance, there are ways that "kill everyone" becomes more powerful than having the characters live.

---

Unfortunately, "kill everyone" is by no means nearly the worst part of the ending.

Seriously, Ren, you have not begun to see the bad part of the game. Keep going. Even Thane's death has an awesome silver lining as you approach the endgame (all I will say: Take the Interrupt. You'll know it when you see it).

But the ending itself is far, far worse than anything you have seen so far. It's not just killing everyone. It's not just failing to save the galaxy. It is a systematic betrayal of everything, from themes to character traits, to lore, that the series has stood for.


Perhaps worst of all, it is a complete betrayal of the fans, as the devs lied, outright, on multiple occassions, even with less than a month before release. (SPOILER)"[The decision to save the rachni] has huge consequences in Mass
Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers" is one of those that pisses me off the most, but it is one of dozens. A large list can be found here.


But, frankly, I think it's too late. Most of the ardent fans have already given up. It honestly doesn't matter what BioWare does at this point, people have moved on. The latest multiplayer weekend event fell far short of its goal, and, while the bad ending is still dominating the forums, it's only because no one wants to talk about anything else. BioWare has driven tens of thousands of fans away from this game already, and most of them aren't even going to remember to look at the new ending when it comes out.