Playable story characters

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Originally Posted by Roogle

The Faith status allows him to bypass his low Faith when spellcasting while still allowing Nether Mantra to work properly, at least.

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Yes but don't you think it's quite too intricate?! He can even give the Innocent status to opponents (with Gokuu Rod) before using Hell Knight skills on them but again it's abstruse to have to give a status to deal damage!

Isn't it wiser to give him a sub-Job that benefits from low Faith rather than a casting class?

That's why I gave him Monk class... It's a class that works well with low-Faith, characterization-wise it seems fitting to Malak's attire and it's also independent from White Magic to receive heals, it has it's own heals often more effective than magic itself...
Also Geomancer works well with Malak because it's a form of magic based on Mag stat but unrelated to Faith!

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

Holy crap, I didn't know the 'Faith' status effect worked in reverse for Malak's special abilities. This makes him almost worth considering using on par with generics.

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Not exactly, some melee classes can benefit from low Faith with magic immunity and this is Malak case! He can be a sort of caster with magic immunity and another class, may it be Monk that is perfect as not-magic-dependent character, or Geomancer, another sort of caster that uses the Mag stat but not Faith!

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EDIT: That sounded snarky. I mean that he still isn't as good as other special characters, but now isn't worse than generics.

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Of course you can give him simply two generic classes and he is equal/better to/than generics, but his special class works well with low Faith and another class not magic dependent!

Ah, but no special characters get to use Accumulate, which makes leveling them much more of a pain in the ass. So if I don't get something good in trade off for loosing the squire job class then I consider them worse than generics.

The main problem is that the best classes to pair him with are stuff like Monk / Geomancer. However neither of those are all that great on their own right. Monks suffer from their lack of ability to equip equipment, and while Geomancers aren't a bad class they are also very difficult to tweak out and make good. Sure you can make him to suck, but it just seems like a lot of extra work and run around to get something not appreciably better than a generic.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

Ah, but no special characters get to use Accumulate, which makes leveling them much more of a pain in the ass. So if I don't get something good in trade off for loosing the squire job class then I consider them worse than generics.

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Yeah, perhaps you have a point on this! Of course you can unequip weapon and hit your tank to gain JP (exp is really not needed, it's better to stay low with level like in FFVIII) dealing small damage but nothing can match Accumulate (that is also useful to deal more damage for melee classes)...

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The main problem is that the best classes to pair him with are stuff like Monk / Geomancer. However neither of those are all that great on their own right. Monks suffer from their lack of ability to equip equipment, and while Geomancers aren't a bad class they are also very difficult to tweak out and make good. Sure you can make him to suck, but it just seems like a lot of extra work and run around to get something not appreciably better than a generic.

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Well, I find Monks to be actually very strong even on their own! They deal consistent damage and the Punch Art command has some really useful skills! Oh well, maybe I'm a Monk fanboy but...

I also tried Malak with Elemental sub command and giving him a caster staff! It works also well as a low-Faith mage paradox! XD

What I mean is not to turn him into Monk/Geomancer, just to clarify! I leave him Hell Knight and I give him Martial Arts support ability... He keeps the Hell Knights equip set but fights unarmed like a Monk with Punch Art as sub command! I leave every special character with their original class and I give them other classes just by sub commands and support abilities! :)

With Punch Art and Martial Arts he gets to be really good! With low Faith he can be a good melee with also healing skills, independent from magic and immune to it and with his Un-Truth that is effective thanks to low Faith!

He can be also a good Monk if you give him poles that he can equip as Hell Knight but they are also Monk traditional weapons! As you can see, everything fits well! :D

If you compare unarmed attacks on a monk to what you can do with end-game weapons the monk comes up severely lacking. Even worse is the fact that a ninja can do more damage unarmed without the 'Unarmed' skill, and have higher speed and move to boot. Also the 'Punch Art' skills scale very poorly at higher levels. Unarmed damage takes off exponentially as PA rises, but growth of the actual skills slows to a crawl.

It isn't a bad skill to compliment Malak's ability, but it is being used in a sub-optimal way in order to justify using Malak in the first place.

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

If you compare unarmed attacks on a monk to what you can do with end-game weapons the monk comes up severely lacking. Even worse is the fact that a ninja can do more damage unarmed without the 'Unarmed' skill, and have higher speed and move to boot. Also the 'Punch Art' skills scale very poorly at higher levels. Unarmed damage takes off exponentially as PA rises, but growth of the actual skills slows to a crawl.

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Yes, you're right, although Monk remains more than decent, he tends to suffer the overgrowth of weapons like also Mages do in every Final Fantasy...

That's why I organize things to keep weapons power low and valuate both fists and magic/skills at the same time... I opened a thread about this aspect and I link it for you if you want to discuss this aspect:

http://home.eyesonff.com/general-fin...amage-cap.html

I can just say here that leaving weapons low in power unarmed attacks stay strong and also spells (but this advantage Monks and Mages have on armed characters it's balanced by me by the fact that Mages are physically weak on their own and Monks are left unarmored and thus very exposed to harm being melee units)...

About Punch Art... It's true that without the initial weapons strategy it gets poor damage wise but its true power lies in its healing skills... Chackra, Stigma Magic and Revive are great considering their effect/cost relation...

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It isn't a bad skill to compliment Malak's ability, but it is being used in a sub-optimal way in order to justify using Malak in the first place.

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Yeah, of course, if someone whats to give space to story characters! You can even turn him in the Ninja/Monk killing machine if you want him to be strong but I prefer to give him the Hell Knight/Monk combination since his attire and main skill are very oriental and suited to be associated to Monk... But also Hell Knight/Geomancer works well and makes him more oriented on the magical side, although without the need of Faith...

I don't think we will ever see eye to eye in a thread as you prefer the aesthetic aspects of the fantasy whereas I view 'class' as a purely mechanical concern to be exploited. :lol:

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Originally Posted by VeloZer0

I don't think we will ever see eye to eye in a thread as you prefer the aesthetic aspects of the fantasy whereas I view 'class' as a purely mechanical concern to be exploited. :lol:

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Aesthetic eh?



:eek: Oh God!!!!!!!! You're absolutely right!!!!!!! That's how I am!!!!
I'm an estimator of the aesthetic side of the whole thing and I want to bend the game mechanics to satisfy my tastes of having the traditional fantasy tropes represented...

Even when mechanics are against me, I work to bend them to my aesthetic fantasy desires!

You got it really right!!! :jess:

Honestly, I am not sure what to do with Marach most of the time because his design looks to me to be a type of spellcaster. Rapha and Marach have the same type of skill that works in different ways, and their special classes have the same equipment pool. Yes, I could turn Marach into a warrior type, but I don't think it fits the character. I will admit that I am not sure what Rapha and Marach are supposed to be as they are described as elite assassins yet completely lack the means of securing kills easily; their skills don't even have a set hit rate! Could you imagine sending an assassin out and then the target gets away because a giant magical crest appears beside them a few times without harming them?

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Originally Posted by Roogle

Honestly, I am not sure what to do with Marach most of the time because his design looks to me to be a type of spellcaster. Rapha and Marach have the same type of skill that works in different ways, and their special classes have the same equipment pool. Yes, I could turn Marach into a warrior type, but I don't think it fits the character.

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Actually, even the story defines him as a type of wizard for that matter and this probably makes him suited to have the Geomancer sub class...

Rafa is perfect to be a mage because she actually benefits from an high Faith...

It could be said that Monk has KI power and in a medieval western setting these spiritual abilities can be often misjudged as magic...
Monk is the type of melee class that could fit him, its Punch Art has some skills that use KI but resemble magic and even his special class casts spell like skills that seems to be made of KI...

Rafa could be an Oracle/Mystic... The attire is that of an oriental mage and it fits her I think...

About equipment... Beside giving Malak the unarmed Monk damage, they can be given Malak a pole (very monkish) and Rafa a staff (typical of mages)...

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I will admit that I am not sure what Rapha and Marach are supposed to be as they are described as elite assassins yet completely lack the means of securing kills easily; their skills don't even have a set hit rate! Could you imagine sending an assassin out and then the target gets away because a giant magical crest appears beside them a few times without harming them?

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:D You are definitely right! XD That's why making Malak to be similar to a Monk could improve his assassination skills greatly! His KI-like skills are too unpredictable to represent their main mean of killing! Also Rafa seems far from the idea of an assassin in any way she can be viewed...