Steam Big Picture Mode a.k.a. The Valve Console

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

And when I mean equipment, I mean C4, Claymores, etc. In CoD4 and Black Ops they're their own slot, separate from grenades, so you need to map them too.

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Yeah, number keys if I used them at all and I only ever bothered with Claymores since they were a set it and forget it thing. And since I would never be setting them in the middle of a firefight, I didn't need to get to them too quickly. At least not so much so that gaining fractions of a second over number keys made a difference.

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I also still stand by my tactical grenades assertion, they're just really important to a playstyle.

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Like I said, I just never really used them. I usually wouldn't have more than the default one flashbang or something except when I was leveling up and 3 was the most useful perk to use out of that grouping. I just really never needed them as I found myself quite capable of outplaying 90% of people without them (I probably use them more to finish people in last stand than anything else). Hell, I regularly played Team Deathmatch and would take out 2-3 guys at once quite easily if I was on my game. But one thing I noticed was that I played that (and most games really) far more aggressively than other players. I would often charge into rooms filled with enemies deliberately when most people were popping around corners taking pot shots, just so I could take out one or two, maybe get a grenade off, and leave them in such disarray that my team could pile in behind me and finish them off. There's nothing I love more than getting in my opponents face in an FPS, especially when it seems like a terrible idea. :D

I know what you mean and that's partially why Call of Duty 4 is actually my least favorite out of the modern ones. It's too easy to run around like a chicken with your head cut off, spraying headshots from the hip, proning, reloading, and doing it all over again. That gets you killed in the later games. You have to play smarter and that makes it much more rewarding when you get the super high customizable and controllable killstreaks. The first time I earned an AC-130 was a very special moment for me :cool:

But back on point, I think it's a very weak argument to say it doesn't matter that KB&M is more inconvenient than controller, because these are things that you personally don't use. I'm wondering if the reason why you don't use these things is because it's impractical for you to use equipment and tactical grenades in the heat of a firefight quickly and effectively, due to how it's mapped for PC. A cool tactic is to pull out C4, throw it through a window and remotely detonate it. It's incredibly effective because C4 has such a larger blast radius than a grenade. I could never imagine myself doing that on PC.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

I know what you mean and that's partially why Call of Duty 4 is actually my least favorite out of the modern ones. It's too easy to run around like a chicken with your head cut off, spraying headshots from the hip, proning, reloading, and doing it all over again.

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Yeah, I do that in pretty much any FPS title, even the ones where people don't think it should work (they're usually wrong). My problem with it in COD4 wasn't so much that it was possible but that I was just so much better at it then everyone else. I'd play team deathmatch on shipment quite a bit and end up with anywhere from 3-5:1 K/D ratios. It was a little absurd by the time I gave the game up. I'm not really sure if that was a fault of the game though. I used to do similar things playing CS and was pretty effective with it. Hell, I even assault bases as a Sniper in TF2, just like I used to in TFC, and I do pretty well. I think most people just aren't used to that style of play as certain classes or in certain games. It's something that probably shouldn't work so well, but because I'm pretty good at reading a fight and getting the drop on people, I make it work somehow.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

But back on point, I think it's a very weak argument to say it doesn't matter that KB&M is more inconvenient than controller, because these are things that you personally don't use. I'm wondering if the reason why you don't use these things is because it's impractical for you to use equipment and tactical grenades in the heat of a firefight quickly and effectively, due to how it's mapped for PC.

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I never made that argument. I didn't use those things because I found them next to useless for my play style. 9 rounds out of 10 they did nothing for me that a frag grenade or simply outmaneuvering enemies didn't do faster and just as effectively. It had nothing to do with where they were mapped since there were no shortage of keys right under my finger tips to map them too if need be. There also was no need because I never found myself stumbling over the keyboard to do anything. Things like C4 and going prone simply did not fit in with my play style at all, hence I never used them. And special grenades I always found less useful than frags because I wanted kills with them, not to rely on blinding someone or stunning someone when most people are used to dealing with both if they see them thrown.

It has absolutely nothing to do with things being more cumbersome on a KB+M than a controller, since I will gladly state that I've never played an FPS on a KB+M that was more cumbersome than a controller. Mapping things to L3 or R3 is annoying, using the Dpad for anything is annoying, and aiming with a control stick is annoying. I think I'd honestly rather give up playing FPS titles than live in a world where KB+M wasn't an option. It really just works far better for me as I have more commands right there under my finger tips, and I'm used to using them all. Hell, I play games like Starcraft with some degree of competence, so having to utilize a keyboard to its fullest in an FPS doesn't even start to phase me. I might as well have been born with a Keyboard and Mouse in hand given how comfortable I am with it.

I have been saying this for a while now whenever Steam do something they do it a lot better than most companies in the video game industry. Take Portal 2's cross platform multiplayer. My housemate is a PC gaming purist and even though he does play console games he prefers mouse & keyboard over a controller. I on the otherhand would be the opposite. So when we played through the Portal 2 co-op campaign it was great that we could have the best of both worlds. I honestly don't understand why 3rd party developers don't push to make this a standard feature. Can you imagine if you all could play the COD series & play against PS3, 360 & PC users at the same time?

However, even though I think Steam can pull this off let them not forget about the cautionary tale known as Onlive.

I agree, Dreamer, and I really think they have what it takes to make this awesome, but from my initial impressions, it has a long way to go at this point in the beta. But yeah, pray for the console manufacturers if they ship a box with this because it'll be a serious threat to the Big 3.

Vivi, I think we've reached an impasse. Your playstyle aside, you still haven't denied that the 14 functions I listed are much easier to do with your thumb, index finger, and middle finger already on the buttons as opposed to having to resort to awkward pinky strokes, taking your fingers off of the movement keys, or worse, having to look away from the action to make sure you're hitting the right number key. You may not think analog sticks are only nominally less quick and efficient as mouse aiming, but I've seen it myself in UTIII's cross-platform multiplayer.

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Originally Posted by Bolivar

Vivi, I think we've reached an impasse. Your playstyle aside, you still haven't denied that the 14 functions I listed are much easier to do with your thumb, index finger, and middle finger already on the buttons as opposed to having to resort to awkward pinky strokes, taking your fingers off of the movement keys, or worse, having to look away from the action to make sure you're hitting the right number key.

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I'm pretty sure by saying that I have absolutely no trouble reaching them that is almost certainly what I'm implying. If you want me to be a bit more up front about it then fine: controlling an FPS title with multiple buttons is at least as easy with a keyboard and a decent mouse as with a controller for someone comfortable with both. I'd argue that it is easier with on the PC though, in no small part because better control over aiming makes pretty much all of those functions more useful.

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You may not think analog sticks are only nominally less quick and efficient as mouse aiming, but I've seen it myself in UTIII's cross-platform multiplayer.

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That a mouse is faster and more accurate than an analog stick in the hands of someone who's used to either isn't really arguable. It's the sort of thing you can measure objectively and I would be very surprised if the mouse didn't win on those criteria. Like I said, other factors come into play when playing a game which can level the playing field, but a mouse is objectively faster and more accurate than an analog stick.