The Justice League and the Avengers get into a fight

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

I've given it some more thought because I'm a complete nerd and that's what I do, and I've come up with an ideal sort of scenario where The Avengers might take this fight.

First, the fight has to take place on The Avengers' Earth. There is no speed force in their universe rendering the Flash powerless. That's one down.

Superman would pretty quickly realize that the Hulk is an almost uncontrollable threat to them and everyone around them so he immediately flies him into orbit and tosses him into the sun, or perhaps just into deep space. While this is happening, Cap makes sure the Avengers pull ahead by curb stomping Batman with his superior physical abilities.

With Superman occupied by dealing with the Hulk, Thor and Iron Man prove to be more than a match for Green Lantern, splitting his focus and, in Thor's case, outright overpowering him with his magical hammer. Superman returns to the fight to find his team incapacitated. Cap stands around being useless because he can't even see Superman moving while Thor holds him off. While they duke it out, Iron Man could maybe, through sheer luck/brain power/plot armour figure out Superman is fueled by the sun, deduce that light approximating that from a red star might depower him, and use his personal deus ex machina suit to cobble something together capable of sapping Supes powers.

Earth saved. Logic, common sense, and anything resembling real science destroyed. Avengers triumphant.

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I would pay so much money to watch this movie.

I don't know why this is even a question worthy of conversation anymore. Notwithstanding the fact I am a much bigger Marvel fan then DC, the answer is Batman wins! Batman has a contingency plan for taking down all of his Justice League partners so don't you think if the two worlds collided that he would sit down & think of a logical way to defeat the Avengers? Batman wins!

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Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands

Supes flight isn't an issue, as Hulks jumping distance when angry is beyond rediculous.

And by the point Superman would try to fly Hulk to the sun there is no way he could so much as hold on to Hulk.

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The thing you're ignoring here is that the only character who is ever stated to be outright faster than Superman is the Flash, and they can both travel at speeds approaching, or perhaps even surpassing, the speed of light with relative ease. Hulk may be really strong, but Superman could fly him into orbit before he realizes he left the ground. Hulk just is not depicted as being that fast, and even most Marvel speedsters are depicted as being much slower than the Flash or Superman. How far and fast Hulk can jump, or how strong he is becomes irrelevant if he can't even see what he's trying to hit and can't keep his feet on the ground.

So yeah, even if we assume the stupidly powerful comic book Hulk I don't think he'd win because his power set is just wrong for fighting Superman if Superman actually uses his brain and doesn't pull "Death of Superman" strategy and try to punch him to death.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Problem: Batman has used wits to take down supers stronger, faster, and meaner than the cap.

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True, but what most people frequently ignore is that not only is Cap stronger and faster than an ordinary human, even one with Batman's training, and will not get tired in a long fight, he's also a highly trained hand to hand combatant and a tactical genius with years of experience fighting in actual wars, as well as taking down super villains who are frequently stronger than him as well. If we were to assume they're both of equal tactical and combat skill, which I think is a fair assumption to make since determining who's better at what would be nearly impossible, Cap takes the fight and his odds increase the longer it goes on because Batman will fatigue. He won't.

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Depends on which Lantern we’re seeing. Hal Jordan and Kyle Rayner are more the types to be easily distracted thus having their focus easily split. However, John Stewart wouldn’t have this problem. On the other hand, ignoring a short attention span, Hal Jordan’s talent with the ring would allow him to quickly separate Thor from his hammer and then launch the Asgardian into space. He’d also be able to disable if not outright dismantle Stark’s armor.

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I disagree. Not only would they have to deal with fighting two people, but Tony can attack from multiple directions using the weapons in his suit. And I doubt Green Lantern could separate Thor from his hammer. He might get him away from it temporarily, but Thor can call the hammer to him, and even if Green Lantern gets it away, he won't be able to keep it away from him, especially since he won't initially know what it can do. And this is all assuming that Mjolnir couldn't smash his constructs which we simply don't know. But I don't think Green Lantern takes a fight with Thor alone since it's basically GL against the Marvel Superman. Adding Iron Man to the mix just swings the odds more in their favour, regardless of who is wearing the ring.

TLDR; Thor's magical hammer would be an important weapon in this fight: Superman is weak to magic and two people on the Avengers are able to wield it: Thor and Captain America. Not to mention that Superman is also weak to green radiation, something that has been utilized by the JL in the fight against Superboy Prime. The Hulk is nothing more than a walking, smashing mass of green radiation. I konw that in the past during Marvel/DC face-offs this hasn't been touched, but whatever, I think it's a real thing.

That being said, the Hulk would probably lose his trout midfight and just break everyone.

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Originally Posted by Cim

TLDR; Thor's magical hammer would be an important weapon in this fight: Superman is weak to magic and two people on the Avengers are able to wield it: Thor and Captain America.

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He's vulnerable to it in the sense that the energy field which protects him against a lot of stuff doesn't do much against it, but even without it he's still extremely durable. Besides that, it's up in the air whether the hammer would do much. It's magic is generally limited to things like letting Thor fly and summon lighting bolts, neither of which is actually going to do much to Superman. It doesn't directly attack him with any mystical energies generally.

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Not to mention that Superman is also weak to green radiation, something that has been utilized by the JL in the fight against Superboy Prime. The Hulk is nothing more than a walking, smashing mass of green radiation.

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He's weak against radiation produced by green kryptonite, not Gamma Rays. If Gamma Rays did anything to him he'd have issues with things like flying outside the Earth's magnetic field. And if the Hulk were actually giving off enough radiation to hurt anyone then this fight gets even easier to call: Superman or Green Lantern tosses him into space after Cap and Iron Man get a lethal dose of gamma rays. They then deal with Thor.

Quoted from another forum.

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t's in the same issue where his breathing apparatus is broken, he's eventually overcome by the weapon he was shot in space to fight and taken aboard it's satellite.

An issue or two later, Bruce transforms into Hulk to fight the weapon inside the satellite. The fight spills out into space, mind you, he no longer has his breathing apparatus and ends on the Moon.

So, yes, Hulk can survive in space. How long? I don't know if there's a determined amount of time, but it seems he doesn't need to breathe in space, anymore. Didn't he also beat the Skrull Black Bolt on the moon, as well?

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It came with a scan from a comic, where they were saying Hulks body would be able to adapt even in outer space.

So tossing him into space is, at best, a temporary solution.

Edit: Of course there is tossing him into the sun. Though really, I wonder if that would work? The amount of extreme enviroment Hulk is able to take without even being phased is rediculous.

So, it comes down to whether or not the sun equals instant death to Hulk. Otherwise that may not be enough.

Edit2: Hulk has, mind you, leapt off the planet before. If we go for the nigh invincible Hulk, with limitless power, if the sun can't kill him all that will happen is, eventually, he'd be mad enough to gain the strength to leap back to earth.

Mind you, this debate depends on how many of Hulks ridiculous stunts that he only pulls off every so often should be counted into his power here. :p

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Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands

So tossing him into space is, at best, a temporary solution.

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Tossing him into Space is only temporary in the sense that if he ever came into contact with another physical body he might be able to push off of it to eventually get back to Earth. But the chances of finding something with enough mass to slow him, let alone get him moving in the other direction, not to mention actually manage to hit a planet moving at more than 100,000 km/h around the sun is so remote that it's a non issue. For all intents and purposes he's removed from the fight for a while. Most likely years if not forever.

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Edit: Of course there is tossing him into the sun. Though really, I wonder if that would work? The amount of extreme enviroment Hulk is able to take without even being phased is rediculous.

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True, but by the time he reaches anything solid enough to push himself off of the temperature is probably over 1 million degrees and he's several hundred thousand km's inside the sun.

At the very least, it should hold him until they can find a nice black hole to toss him into.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands

So tossing him into space is, at best, a temporary solution.

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Tossing him into Space is only temporary in the sense that if he ever came into contact with another physical body he might be able to push off of it to eventually get back to Earth. But the chances of finding something with enough mass to slow him, let alone get him moving in the other direction, not to mention actually manage to hit a planet moving at more than 100,000 km/h around the sun is so remote that it's a non issue. For all intents and purposes he's removed from the fight for a while. Most likely years if not forever.

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Edit: Of course there is tossing him into the sun. Though really, I wonder if that would work? The amount of extreme enviroment Hulk is able to take without even being phased is rediculous.

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True, but by the time he reaches anything solid enough to push himself off of the temperature is probably over 1 million degrees and he's several hundred thousand km's inside the sun.

At the very least, it should hold him until they can find a nice black hole to toss him into.

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By the point they find a black hole it may be to late. :p

And if we go by typical Marvel Logic and plot, or DC for that matter, no way he'd be gone for years. 1 month at best. :p

So, it depends whether or not we put this fight on a time limit as to whether or not Hulk would win.

Well, what's the point of the fight to begin with? Presumably each is fighting in defense of their own universe as they are champions if not heroes. If getting rid of Hulk is the key to defeating the Avengers, his being gone for even a few hours would be enough for the League to knock down the Avengers and then leave, not caring whether the Hulk came back. If the Hulk showed up in the League universe to stir trouble, the entire League and even the Legion of Doom would work together possibly even with Darkseid to find a way to get rid of Hulk. Would Hulk's strength be enough to bust him out of the Phantom Zone?

Let's posit instead that one side or another is fighting for more ambitious purposes or that they're being controlled/manipulated into fighting. That side, by default, would lose eventually if not immediately.

Let's go back to a melee of Bats vs Cap. Cap may be a natural strategist, but he's still just a soldier. Bats understanding of psychology and human behavior due to apophenia inspired by multiple encounters with criminal minds including the chaotic Joker, the Scarecrow, and the Riddler means that he would play more of a mind game with Cap by luring him away from the rest of the group to someplace dark where he can hide while having a "nice conversation" with the Cap. He would tell him all about why he became the Batman and why he has more drive to win and in turn, Cap would regale him with his own traumas in the war. This is his downfall as Batman would then turn Cap's every word around to seem as though he's a horrible person and when he's at his lowest, Batman will drop him without much of a fight, the Cap having lost much of his will.

Now as the two are composed of heroes, there is no one single victory. After one side wins, there will always be a second fight wherein they'll lose. Then the third act will involve them discovering why they're at odds and working together blah blah blah.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Well, what's the point of the fight to begin with? Presumably each is fighting in defense of their own universe as they are champions if not heroes. If getting rid of Hulk is the key to defeating the Avengers, his being gone for even a few hours would be enough for the League to knock down the Avengers and then leave, not caring whether the Hulk came back. If the Hulk showed up in the League universe to stir trouble, the entire League and even the Legion of Doom would work together possibly even with Darkseid to find a way to get rid of Hulk. Would Hulk's strength be enough to bust him out of the Phantom Zone?

Let's posit instead that one side or another is fighting for more ambitious purposes or that they're being controlled/manipulated into fighting. That side, by default, would lose eventually if not immediately.

Let's go back to a melee of Bats vs Cap. Cap may be a natural strategist, but he's still just a soldier. Bats understanding of psychology and human behavior due to apophenia inspired by multiple encounters with criminal minds including the chaotic Joker, the Scarecrow, and the Riddler means that he would play more of a mind game with Cap by luring him away from the rest of the group to someplace dark where he can hide while having a "nice conversation" with the Cap. He would tell him all about why he became the Batman and why he has more drive to win and in turn, Cap would regale him with his own traumas in the war. This is his downfall as Batman would then turn Cap's every word around to seem as though he's a horrible person and when he's at his lowest, Batman will drop him without much of a fight, the Cap having lost much of his will.

Now as the two are composed of heroes, there is no one single victory. After one side wins, there will always be a second fight wherein they'll lose. Then the third act will involve them discovering why they're at odds and working together blah blah blah.

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Well, if we are involving more then the 4 vs. 4 listed originally, Avengers win because Strange could just keep dragging back Hulk from space (From an undisclosed location), and being the 'Sorcer Supreme' he my well be able to keep superman down.

Playing by those rules the Space Trick wouldn't work on Hulk at all, nor would retreating back to their own dimension. ;P

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Originally Posted by Uncle Big Hands

And if we go by typical Marvel Logic and plot, or DC for that matter, no way he'd be gone for years. 1 month at best. :p

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Maybe not a month. Depends on how attached they want Hulk to get with the new planet and people he meets and how angry they want him when he comes back. :D

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Let's go back to a melee of Bats vs Cap. Cap may be a natural strategist, but he's still just a soldier.

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That's kind of my point though, Cap isn't just a soldier just like he wasn't just some scrawny kid before the super soldier serum. And the idea of Cap giving up or losing the will to fight is somewhat ludicrous. We're talking about someone who had the balls to keep fighting and basically tell Thanos to get bent even after he had obtained the Infinity Gauntlet and all of the Infinity Gems. Sure he got his neck broken for his trouble, but the man didn't back down from an enemy who was essentially a god even though he knew he couldn't win.

Marvel is generally superior to DC in every day, but DC heroes have some ridiculous powers. Hulk is pretty much invincible, but can easily be kept out of the picture by Superman or Green Lantern. Thor would be the only one with a chance to put up much of a fight. Batman and Flash could at least keep Captain America and Iron Man occupied while the rest are dealt with.

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Originally Posted by Shattered Dreamer

Batman wins!

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Batman always wins.

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Originally Posted by Raistlin

Marvel is generally superior to DC in every day, but DC heroes have some ridiculous powers. Hulk is pretty much invincible, but can easily be kept out of the picture by Superman or Green Lantern. Thor would be the only one with a chance to put up much of a fight. Batman and Flash could at least keep Captain America and Iron Man occupied while the rest are dealt with.

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Going with the new 52 continuity, Green Lanters creations with his ring are breakable. I'm not sure about prior to this, but this pretty much ensures his utter uselessness against Hulk.

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Originally Posted by Mercen-X

Let's go back to a melee of Bats vs Cap. Cap may be a natural strategist, but he's still just a soldier. Bats understanding of psychology and human behavior due to apophenia inspired by multiple encounters with criminal minds including the chaotic Joker, the Scarecrow, and the Riddler means that he would play more of a mind game with Cap by luring him away from the rest of the group to someplace dark where he can hide while having a "nice conversation" with the Cap. He would tell him all about why he became the Batman and why he has more drive to win and in turn, Cap would regale him with his own traumas in the war. This is his downfall as Batman would then turn Cap's every word around to seem as though he's a horrible person and when he's at his lowest, Batman will drop him without much of a fight, the Cap having lost much of his will.

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That is completely ridiculous. Cap is basically the last person in the Marvel universe that sort of thing would work on.