But if all these were present in a non-FF, wouldn't that game also have a FF-feel?
If not, why?
Printable View
But if all these were present in a non-FF, wouldn't that game also have a FF-feel?
If not, why?
A lot of these elements were in Lost Odyssey, which quite honestly felt like the most Final Fantasy-ish game since 9. Of course it was made by the man who created and pioneered Final Fantasy, so that's something that doesn't surprise me much. I think it's quite possible for a non-FF to feel more like an FF then an FF. Though Lost Odyssey is the only one that I've played that had the FF feel to it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirage
Well, it's just that most good RPGs I have played lately include most of those points. Many other "JRPGs" have all of them, although sometimes not as good writing, but I wouldn't say they feel similar to FF games.
For the most part, the strongest similarity I can see between FF games is the ATB battle system, which is present in all the games from 4 to 9, 10-2, 13 and 13-2. That kind of feels like sort of a thin base to build an entire series' "feel" on, though.
When looking at for example Tales of, and Star Ocean games, their battle systems seem a lot more distinct than ATB, probably because those games have a lot more dynamic combat system. While there are significant differences between these, I think it is easy to notice that the people making Tales of have at some point worked together with the Star Ocean guys in the past (which actually is the case). This is for example noticable in menu design, item balance, direct control of characters on the battlefield, chaining attacks together and using hitbox detection for attacks, often using the same composer (Motoi Sakuraba), and usually the existence of a multitude of variations of the game's ending.
Now of course, this is kind of similar to how FF have used ATB for a long time and using Nobuo Uematsu as the composer, but all in all, I think the similarities between FF games are a lot more shallow than in some other game series. It is perhaps to be expected, because the series is so huge and old, and therefore it would be hard to make games more similar without them all being practically the same game. What I like the most about FF is that each game is a brand new game, with its own lore, its own world design, its own gameplay elements.
The times I have enjoyed FF the most is when they've gone ahead and made something completely different from earlier games, when I feel like the game is very different from the last game I played. Sure, spell names and monsters are reused, but that's kind of a shallow similarity so I don't care too much about them being the same. Despite all the negative things I've said about FF13, I really liked a lot of the new combat elements they brought in that game, even if a lot of them could have been tweaked better. FF13-2 did just this, but failed in the story department again. Likewise, FF12 is very different from past FF games too, and that again is some of the things I enjoyed about the game. For FF8, I really liked the twist they did with character progression, going away from mindless grinding and focusing more on other ways to gain power. In the end, it was easily breakable, but the important thing is that they tried. If FF stopped trying to reinvent itself at regular intervals, that's when I think the series would be over for me.
Well I think one thing that separates FF from other fantasy RPG's is the general setting that isn't quite fantasy. What with the games having a blend of technology and magic, blended together. Some games technology is strange in it, others magic feels off, and even games that try and blend them seem to feel strange with one or the other. Final fantasy tends to blend the 2 together in just about every game and make it feel good.
The feel of Final Fantasy gets me reved but often leaves me unsatisfied.
phoenix downs and potions and summon monsters and crystals and melodrama and the impending sense of doom unless you and your rag-tag team of miscreants grind a bit and destroy a bunch of overgrown animals and final bosses
followed by a really expensive outro
i had the ff feel during tales of phantasia so i dunno wtf people are talking about when saying 'ff' has a feel honestly
The "final fantasy feel" for me includes chocobo, cactuar, tonberry, moogle, hastega, waterga, cid....
You get the idea. Reoccurring themes make it feel like Final Fantasy to me. Even newer releases feel like Final Fantasy to me.
The feel, for me, is from the combination of Sakaguchi's game direction, Uematsu's music, and Amano's art direction. It has less to do with individual components of the game and more with the feeling imbued by their careful attention to detail in creating the world. Even though the games are made by teams it's obvious how strong their influences were and I believe their departures are why so much of the magic has been lost in recent titles.
I think you sum it up well, I guess in my thoughts I didn't consider 3 main players in the Final Fantasy series, but I do agree those 3 are big contributions to what makes something feel like a Final Fantasy along with other elements.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeberto
Well, since when Amano was an art director for FF? he is an "image illustrator" which means that at some point they will be using some art he did either in the game, or as promotional pieces, or as cover art or for game guides, just like tons of late 80s games from Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeberto
Honestly, other than Uematsu, i don't feel Sakaguchi or Amano were big deal at all. Also, what is that magic that has been lost in recent titles? I am interested to know.
My opinion is based on Auteur theory as applied to video games. It's something you can see frequently in industrial processes - for example, Apple's products being so heavily tied to Steve Jobs' vision - but in this case, I see the "feel" of FF being directly related to the influence of the three people I mentioned; Amano's concepts for characters and environments contributed significantly to the visual feel of the games, Uematsu's music set the emotional tone for the world and story events, and Sakaguchi's game direction are what set the pacing of the game, as well as defined the mechanics that made them enjoyable.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinGundamWell, since when Amano was an art director for FF? he is an "image illustrator" which means that at some point they will be using some art he did either in the game, or as promotional pieces, or as cover art or for game guides, just like tons of late 80s games from Japan.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoeberto
Honestly, other than Uematsu, i don't feel Sakaguchi or Amano were big deal at all. Also, what is that magic that has been lost in recent titles? I am interested to know.
The magic that I feel is missing comes with the departure, or at least reduced influences, of those three. At least in the main titles. FFXIII seemed little more to me than a focus group-tested series of checkboxes to be ticked in order to satisfy some requirement up high for a new title that Final Fantasy could be plastered on. I haven't played many of the recent portable titles, but from what I understand they've been far more fun and enjoyable, which fits - a smaller team on a smaller project has more wiggle room to take ownership and experiment. A big team on a triple-A title these days tend to rely on corporate approval of everything to minimize risk due to the huge development costs. Plenty of big-name Japanese developers have complained about this and it's made them leave for smaller outfits where their creative vision can shine through.
This is all my opinion, of course, but it's the reason I really don't give two trouts about Final Fantasy anymore. I groan with new titles being announced because I can't shake the feeling that it's just milking something that used to be truly great and original. I just hope SE can prove me wrong.
Personally, I don't really believe in that theory, games are made by teams, sometimes huge teams and that makes it even harder to convey the concepts without changes or alterations. Also, it is not like FF was consistent even back then, does FF7 feel like FF5 or does FF6 feel like FF1? To me, no.
Speaking of focus group-tests, FFXIII wasn't focus tested from what i know or they test it but they couldn't adjust the game based on feedback because they had to release it as soon as possible before it became a vaporware project.
Do you want an SE game that used focus group feedbacks, it is a portable game called Bravely Default, the game that people claim it carries FF's magic/soul/etc and got high user rating because it felt like NES or SNES RPG. Square add a survey contest now for sequel with three questions: "what jobs do you want in a sequel", "what plot points do you want us to cover in a sequel or spinoff", and "what merch do you want". On the other hand, A big budget console vaporware like VersusXIII is an ARPG based on fictional world that is actually "remodeled" after real world cities such as Tokyo Shinjiku, Venice and so on, as huge fan of Modern, Sci-fi and oriental JRPGs, i can't remember any JRPG did this, if there is then it is probably one or two JRPGs.
In general, I don't think JP portable devs are in better situation, many of their games are spiritual sequels, hunting and quests games, Moe/anime games, remakes, ports, homage and crossovers. Some of them even stopped releasing on portables in favor GREE or web browser games because these devs want to target the lowest spec platforms and benefit from low development cost and risks.
It's when Final Fantasy touches you in that naughty place. :smug:
It's something that butthurt fanboys say to explain their hatred of all post-FFIX entries because OMG HOW DARE THEY CHANGE ANYTHING AND NOT MAKE THE SAME GAME FOR THE TENTH TIME AROUND, HOW DARE THEY TRY SOMETHING DIFFERENT!"
See also:
-Resident Evil 4 and on is not Resident Evil
-Tomb Raider Legendand on is not Tomb Raider
-DmC: Devil May Cry is not Devil May Cry
-Metroid: Other M is not Metroid
-Mortal Kombat 4 and on is not Mortal Kombat
-Crash Bandicoot 4: The Wrath of Cortex and on is not Crash Bandicoot