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It strikes me as more than a little odd that one would retry a game another 3 times after the first 35 hour play-through sucked.
I'm not following you here, convincing you of what?Quote:
... wow, that almost came really close to convincing me.Quote:
Some time after I decided to stop being a little bitch and realise that the post PS1 era is over and quality like that would be impossible to achieve again. After this realisation the game was pretty awesome.
That FFXII just isn't that great. I had a similar experience, that when I got rid of all my expectations and just enjoyed the game for what it was, that's when it clicked. I just think it would be really sad if we said goodbye to the past and accepted that all games from here on out aren't going to be as good. Mostly because so far it's been pretty true :(Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottNUMBERS
I'll confess, I played it for like 40 hours but never finished it then tried a new playthrough but got distracted, i enjoyed what i played from FF12 for the most part but at that time i actually stopped completely from playing JRPGs, I don't know why but my search for my kind of JRPG for the ps2 was fruitless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Ya know what Anakin Skywalker and I have in common?
Apart from the willingness to commit mass murder for the ones we love?
We both hate sand.
Sand sums up the first ten godforsaken hours of this game. If it isn't sand it's a small relief of boring corridors and a sewer level.
I can tell you right now I wasn't a fan of FFXII until over ten hours into it. Slogging through the two Sandeas was a nightmare and none of the previous areas did the game any favors.
And that's not even getting into the storytelling. One thing you can say about FFX over FFXII is that pacing was never a real problem. Pacing was THE problem in FXII.
People often debate who the main character is. There is no frickin' main character because the pacing is so unforgiving in its badness. Each character drops in and out of relevancy with huge *THUNK*s and you might as well forget they even exist for hours upon hours. Poor Basch gets the worst of it because after the godawful Sandsea section he is utterly worthless to the story. He becomes worth a damn again at the very end of the game as in the final frickin' dungeon.
Plenty of people would argue Penelo was completely superfluous and never had a real place in the plot at all.
Fran too.
Balthier sits there talking smugly for half of the game but only on the way to Archadia does he actually do anything of worth.
Overall you get the impression the heroes are even a bigger bunch of bumbling, ineffectual buffoons than usual. The "Real Plot" is happening elsewhere and the villains are the only ones doing anything of interest.
Heroes: Let's get the Nethicite!
We got the Nethicite!
We can't use the Nethicite!
Let's learn to use the Nethicite!
We still can't use the Nethicite!
The whole part with the Henna Mines or whatever they were should have been dropped from the game. It was padding for Fran's arc but Fran didn't deserve an arc to begin with.
Gabranth being the Kingslayer had dramatic weight and importance...in the first two hours of the game. By the time he actually reveals himself and his part in that conspiracy to Ashe and the others? Yeah, the audience has just trudged through 50+ hours of other game crap and we've long since stopped giving the slightest smurf.
And the list of flaws in the game goes on.
A game in which there's more gameplay than story?! Le gasp! What are they going to think of next?! :eek:Quote:
Yeah, the audience has just trudged through 50+ hours of other game crap and we've long since stopped giving the slightest smurf.
Agreed. Both Sandseas and the Ester/Westersand were rather unimaginative. The Phon coast was quite nice though, mainly because of the music and sunshine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Forsaken Lover
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People often debate who the main character is. There is no frickin' main character because the pacing is so unforgiving in its badness. Each character drops in and out of relevancy with huge *THUNK*s and you might as well forget they even exist for hours upon hours. Poor Basch gets the worst of it because after the godawful Sandsea section he is utterly worthless to the story. He becomes worth a damn again at the very end of the game as in the final frickin' dungeon.
This in itself isn't bad. Even VII to a smaller extent had certain periods of the story where it's centered towards a smaller character. Cosmo Canyon for example had the spotlight on Red XIII and Tifa/Cid were both party leaders at times.
In that way, XII could be broken down in the following ways:
Beginnings: Vaan & Penelo
Palace And Sewers: Vaan & Sky Pirates
Bhujerba: Vaan & Penelo (Basch at the very beginning)
Leviathan: Vossler & Ashe
Sandseas/Raithwall: Ashe
Shiva: Ashe, slight focus on Fran's mist rage
Jahara: Ashe & Vaan
Eryut Village: Fran
Paramina Rift: Judges
Mt Bur Omisace: Al-Cid & Larsa & Ashe
Archades: Balthier & Dr Cid
Balfonheim Port: Reddas & Vaan & Ashe
Pharos: Ashe & Reddas
Endgame: Basch & Ashe
Of course, this is by no means gospel. But it does show how the game splits the "main" character role up. I do still agree with you though; overall the other characters got relatively little screen time. Even at Eryut Village, Fran doesn't really get much coverage; hell it's Vaan who challenges the Viera. Also, parts that I have labelled Penelo really don't show her off much as well, she's just the foil to Vaan's ambitions. I think the game could have handled this story mechanic alot better.
The public details surrounding Matsuno's departure are extremely scarce and vague, so you should take that into consideration before you denounce him as stupid.Quote:
Originally Posted by ShinGundam
Forsaken Lover I think puts it into words in a few areas, better then I am capable of.
Over all I don't hate the game. I really did enjoy it, the world was lovely, and there were some really nice characters. And much of the story was really amazing, but the telling was ultimately flawed, and too much was happening and switching perspectives for it to really sink in. The heroes don't even meet the main villain till the very end, and by then the player has seen more of the villain than the heroes ever did.
It's a game with a lot of potential, but they dropped the ball so hard it isn't even funny.
A lot of the levels felt bland and empty, a lot of it felt like filler. Apart from Rabanastre, Bhujerba and that pirate town none of the area's were memorable. The battle system was easily exploited by Berserk + Haste. Some dungeons (like the Pharos lighthouse) had some really confusing puzzle design. As Forsaken Lover explained perfectly the pacing was way off. The palings were lazy excuses for adding challenge to boss-fights, as they only added tediousness. And finally a lot of the characters spoken of or shown in cutscenes weren't fleshed out at all and therefore had no meaning. The judges, the espers, some historical characters from the 'book' that is read to us; none of it seemed to add any depth.
Man, I really hate all you guys.
bleh
Characters suck
Music sucks
Storyline sucks
I'm too lazy to express more because I've already said that I loathe this game here many times before. Final Fantasy 12 is just like every other Final Fantasy. Some like it, some don't.
/ lazy
There's not liking something, then there's three counts of excessive incorrectness. ;)
I love the hell out of this game.
Crystals? Check.
Underdogs versus Empire? Check.
A big, big world? Check.
Awesome music? Check.
Pretty things? Check.
Sounds like a Final Fantasy to me. XII has a lot going for it.
Areas are pretty unique and visually distinct, non-player characters are not simply background characters, music is monsters vary visually and tactically, the story is long and engaging enough, combat is almost intuitive for anyone with any experience with IV-IX and XI, and there are lots of sidequests.
Active Dimension Battle, the system behind combat, plays like a three dimension version of Active Time Battle, so it is easy to understand, and there is no transition between an area and battle screen. Beyond basic leveling up, the License Board is straight-forward and easy to understand, and allows a lot of flexibility compared to the restrictive Grid Sphere. I like how dynamic stores can be with offerings; the more and better the junk you bring in to make money, the more and better is the equipment they can sell to you.
I do not know why people hate the main cast of heroes and villains. Is Venat really that much of a storykiller? How does him shadowing a main antagonist any different than Zemus or Necron? How is Vayne any different than Golbez or Kuja? I like mad scientists, and we have had them before, as well as evil brothers. All of these things are staples of the series. What about the good guys? Vaan is an excellent way to start the story from the eyes of a person not initially in the know of all the intricacies at play, and Penelo is a great asset as a second character, unless you want to suggest that Vaan never had a friend in his life and should be unrealistically alone all of his life. How awkward would the story be if you had to take it directly from Ashe, Balthier, or Basch? All of these people, by the way, fill up time-proven classic roles in personality and initial gameplay. If they all become redundant or bland, it is because you made your characters so, and you can only blame yourself or God for that.
Locations in this game are amazing. I was excited every time I got to explore a new place, from the Zertinan Caverns to Cerobi Steppe, and pretty much everything in between. All this griping about desert? I am so appalled by this brush-aside than anything else; each desert location is unique and has a huge range of differing geographical features. Even the same desert, with different maps, offer a variety of landscapes to traverse. Are you winding through ravines, walking along a cliff, zig-zagging down a mountain path, or is everything to you genuinely like walking across a level beach devoid of detail?
Related to locations are the people populating the--you know what, this is pretty long-winded and I think I underline my point that this game is great, I love it, and people who hate this game are terrible people.
Things I hated about XII include Archades, the shallowest big city, Palings, the excuses to make battles needlessly harder and not reward a player for learning how to handle a boss, and a lack of a million more sidequests and hunts, which the game had tons of, but never enough.
In case you guys don't know, FFXII is one of my favorite games in the series. As of right now it's actually neck-and-neck for my #1 favorite.
It just has a lot of flaws that are very easy to pick at. I just think all the positives far outweigh these flaws.
This. People always, always bash on the characters and call them bland. I really, really fail to see that. I feel that sometimes in the series characters' quirks are always on display and their characterization is never handled with subtlety. However, in FFXII the characters have distinct and pleasant personalities yet feel much more organic since their personalities aren't mugging for attention all the time. They come out more naturally.Quote:
All of these people, by the way, fill up time-proven classic roles in personality and initial gameplay. If they all become redundant or bland, it is because you made your characters so, and you can only blame yourself or God for that.