Starcraft II: Heart of the Swarm

I understand that most people find the multiplayer more interesting, I just didn't think the changes HotS brought to multiplayer were that big.

Campaign mode has some really solid additions to gameplay, some well thought out missions (so far), and an interesting new story insight into the Zerg and Kerrigan. And Aigis. ;)

Multiplayer has seven new units. Sure getting Lurkers back for the Zerg is great, but every other gameplay change was a per-expansion patch.

I'm not complaining, just surprised. I definitely wasn't getting this game to spend ten bucks on each new unit.

Brutal difficulty on single player in WoL is incredibly challenging and some of the Mastery achievements for Hard difficulty or higher in HotS single player are very challenging. The campaign itself is very well done and they've evidently learned from some of their mistakes in WoL, upgrades are actually meaningful and you get more bang for your buck from them and they brought back the Hero Unit system from Warcraft 3 which really makes you feel like you're a badass.

As for multiplayer, if the end of beta events and the current HotS launch events are anything to go by then people are playing far more aggressively rather than 4 base turtle tactics.

This is also ignoring the fastly growing Arcade scene and the massive overhauls they made to versus AI in HotS.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Multiplayer has seven new units. Sure getting Lurkers back for the Zerg is great, but every other gameplay change was a per-expansion patch.

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The thing to keep in mind is that while saying something like "they added seven units" doesn't sound like much of a change, those units and the old ones don't exist in a vacuum and can't be judged on their own abilities and stats alone. How they interact with other units, timings, and strategies also plays a big role in how they change the game, and the ripple effect caused by adding a few units can be huge. It'd be a bit like adding two or three new units to chess. There'd be such a huge impact on how the game is played that it's like someone just came over to the game you used to play and upended the table on you.

And even that's not the best analogy since some old units did change in HOTS from their WOL counterparts. Just looking at Terrans alone, Reapers base speed is now their former upgraded speed, they lost the building attack and bonus light damage from HOTS, don't require a techlab to build, and they heal automatically out of battle. Siege Tanks don't need to research siege mode anymore, they simply come with it standard. Medivacs also got emergency thrusters (might not be the actual name) so they can pop off the ability and get a major speed boost. Those are pretty big changes on their own, and just does all the more to shake up the game from what it was in HOTS. And Zerg and Protoss both got some changes to WOL units as well.

All added up, it amounts to some interesting times ahead as players adapt old strategies and create new ones to cope.

I like RTS for the campaign mode. I am a slow player with these games and not greatly skilled. I understand all of the basics just fine but I don't care to play all that fast (the reverse of how I play like...every other genre). Those missions where they want to time you are the ones that I have the most trouble with by far.

I ended up beating the fire crawl level in WoL on hard because of the way the map is shaped. I got to the edge and waited until the fire swept through and killed everything else. The protoss didn't have any units or buildings that went to the right most edge/corner due to map perspective.

Man I suck at these games in multiplayer but I look forward to the challenges in single player. I barely managed to get all of the medals last time and I am sure it will be the same or worse for me this time (I hate the zerg).

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Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm

Man I suck at these games in multiplayer but I look forward to the challenges in single player. I barely managed to get all of the medals last time and I am sure it will be the same or worse for me this time (I hate the zerg).

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On the plus side for the Zerg Campaign, I've heard you don't have to do larva injects. This pleases me because I hate larva injects. Zerg was probably my favourite race to play in Brood War, but keeping up with larva injects is the thing that's kept me from playing Zerg in WOL aside from in the occasional team game or monobattles. I find they're just too punishing if you're timing isn't bang on as mine tends not to be.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by edczxcvbnm

Man I suck at these games in multiplayer but I look forward to the challenges in single player. I barely managed to get all of the medals last time and I am sure it will be the same or worse for me this time (I hate the zerg).

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On the plus side for the Zerg Campaign, I've heard you don't have to do larva injects. This pleases me because I hate larva injects. Zerg was probably my favourite race to play in Brood War, but keeping up with larva injects is the thing that's kept me from playing Zerg in WOL aside from in the occasional team game or monobattles. I find they're just too punishing if you're timing isn't bang on as mine tends not to be.

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Yep. Hatcheries now naturally generate up to 9 Larva, and there is no injection ability. Yay.

Beat the campaign. Fun stuff.

Endgame musings about Legacy of the VoidThat ending really didn't do much to set up a Protoss campaign. As much fun as this was, I don't want to play as Zerg again in Legacy of the Void. But the entire setup from both Wings of Liberty and Heart of the Swarm has been to have Kerrigan and the swarm play a huge role in the final showdown with the Fallen One. Heck, even Zeratul in this one just goes "yep, you're set for the fight, I'm out of here and you won't see me again". I'm very curious to see what they're going to do.

The Master Archives are a hugely fun tool, and I wish they'd implement a similar feature for Wings of Liberty. Having every campaign open is one thing, but getting the ability to reset all the choices you made in terms of unit upgrades and costs at any time is huge, and makes it so much easier to play around with new abilities and setups. I've only replayed two missions so far, but they were even more fun than the original run.


And I still love that the adjutant is Aigis. It's a shame she's stuck in a non combat role, I'd have her in my army all the time just to hear her comments and voice continuously.

I'll be getting my first HotS experience as MLG is about to start. Looks like a good lineup of good korean players, so I can't wait to see some interesting matches!

This thread's bickering has me enthralled. continue.

I think we're done bickering Freya.

And thanks for reminding me about MLG kotora. I almost forgot that started tonight.

Awwww :(

Because I love ya Freya. ;)

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Multiplayer has seven new units. Sure getting Lurkers back for the Zerg is great, but every other gameplay change was a per-expansion patch.

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I meant to actually mention this earlier (even though I'm sure you're just noting the similarity of Lurkers and Swarm Hosts being units that attack while burrowed): Swarm Hosts aren't Lurkers. They are terrible harassment and defensive units. They're more like Siege Tanks than anything else really.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

Because I love ya Freya. ;)

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

Multiplayer has seven new units. Sure getting Lurkers back for the Zerg is great, but every other gameplay change was a per-expansion patch.

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I meant to actually mention this earlier (even though I'm sure you're just noting the similarity of Lurkers and Swarm Hosts being units that attack while burrowed): Swarm Hosts aren't Lurkers. They are terrible harassment and defensive units. They're more like Siege Tanks than anything else really.

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Heh, I used Lurkers as Assault forces all the time. Large groups could wipe out bases in moments. Aim for detectors first, then just sit back and let them eliminate everything. Not the most efficient or safest way to attack a base, but, hey, I'm here to have fun.

I know Swarm Hosts aren't the same thing, and with their Locusts, they are a very odd unit. The auto attack range is actually really small, but if you control spawn them, you can then direct them around until their life expires, giving them a decent range. They are decent harassers, as you can root, spawn, and then unroot and draw back while the Locusts attack. I'm not really a fan of them though, and they're nowhere near as awesome as the old Lurkers were.

On the plus side, Lurkers are back. If you haven't done the Evolution Mission for Hydralisks yet, just know that you can get either Lurkers or Impalers as the reward. Impalers are like Lurkers that have a longer range, but only hit one target, for more damage and bonus damage to armored units. So, even more powerful assault forces, and good defenders against things like Siege tanks.

They're in the game code now, so it's only a matter of time before people start shoving them into Custom maps.


The evolution missions really show love to the coolest Zerg units. Hydralisks (already some of the most awesome Zerg units in their own right) get to become Lurkers again, and the Ultralisk gets immortality. Ah, I love it.

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Originally Posted by Skyblade

They are decent harassers, as you can root, spawn, and then unroot and draw back while the Locusts attack.

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When I said they're bad at defending and harassment, I really meant in multiplayer. The computer is usually pretty stupid so stuff like that works. But burrowing, spawning, unburrowing, and moving away are so slow that against a decent opponent you'll probably either lose the Swarm Hosts, or they'll counter attack around them while they're completely out of position.

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On the plus side, Lurkers are back. If you haven't done the Evolution Mission for Hydralisks yet, just know that you can get either Lurkers or Impalers as the reward. Impalers are like Lurkers that have a longer range, but only hit one target, for more damage and bonus damage to armored units. So, even more powerful assault forces, and good defenders against things like Siege tanks.

They're in the game code now, so it's only a matter of time before people start shoving them into Custom maps.

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I still don't have my copy yet. But I thought I'd mention that Lurkers were included in the editor in WOL. Actually, all of the Brood War units were I believe, as well as the new units that didn't make it into WOL multiplayer like Diamondbacks.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

I meant to actually mention this earlier (even though I'm sure you're just noting the similarity of Lurkers and Swarm Hosts being units that attack while burrowed): Swarm Hosts aren't Lurkers. They are terrible harassment and defensive units. They're more like Siege Tanks than anything else really.

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Take burrow (can't remember the actual name of it off the top of my head, but the evolution that lets them move to anywhere there's creep) and spread creep as much as possible and Swarm Hosts are amazing for the campaign on higher difficulties. Particularly the later missions where you may be forced to defend on multiple fronts - being able to burrow and get Hosts to the other side of the map almost instantly is not to be underestimated.

Swarm hosts don't get the ability to move while burrowed outside of the campaign. From what I've seen so far, zerg definitely got the short end of the stick with this expansion. Terran, which was already the best designed race in WoL, got some very useful additions to their arsenal, protoss got some very good harassment air units while zerg got some limited useable lategame units.
And as always, TvT remains the most interesting and diverse matchup. Seeing some really good games this MLG after the Ro16. I'm glad the tournament included so many good koreans.