What do you think fans feel is missing from Square Enix?

Really the sequels are a pain. The whole point of FINAL fantasy is that it is the last story of that world. Now I understood the tactics games all being set in the same world. That was easy cause of all the classes and stuff. but i really don't like this trend of sequels for the main entries. I honestly think if Lightning returns was instead a new cast instead of lightning, same story and mechanics, I think it would get a better reception. Fans are sick of the sequels to main entries. If they made new games rather than trying to expand the XIII story then we would be looking forward to FF XVII for versus now. Less cash grab more focus on quality numbered entries.

I'm sure their accounting department loves to not have to pay for entirely new art assets for every game, though.

I'm sure but it's hindering their brand I believe by them doing it.

Honestly, they could probably reuse more assets than they think from one game to the next if they simply made small tweaks to 3D models, textures, shaders, etc. to fit the art style. I mean when you get right down to it, a barrel is just a barrel and a tree is often a tree. No need to reinvent the wheel unless the situation calls for it, but they frequently do anyway.

I would guess that they spend gargantuan sums of money designing and creating the main characters and that reusing them saves them an extremely significant amount of that.

I'm not saying it isn't hurting their brand, I certainly have no interesting playing sequels to the main story games.

Don't disagree at all. They just need to start realizing that sequels to main entries aren't doing them any favours. On the plus side, they seem to be doing more work to streamline their development pipeline and make better development tools, so hopefully they find some savings there too. Anything that at least gets us different games faster. As someone who hated FFXIII, sitting around all generation getting nothing but FFXIII and its sequels is about as appealing as an enema.

At least on the Playstation and PS2, if you didn't like one FF there was at least one other one that was quite a bit different that you might like.

Some of what I want out of Final Fantasy:

1) Ability to customize characters. This means equipment for example. Preferably head/body/shield/weapon/accessory slots. This does not mean a grid of circles where you pick a circle when you level up. Finding equipment upgrades in treasure chests is really fun. Seeing a big list of stuff you want to buy in a store is really fun, it gives you a goal to work for.
2) World Map with a boat or airship I get to drive around on it.
3) A story that make sense.
4) Memorable, distinct characters that I give a crap about.

FF13 went off the deep end with made-up words and crap. I couldn't follow the plot at all. Some people got cursed and now they're wandering around. Some people I never met got kidnapped and we're trying to save them. I don't know who the villain of the game was. There were big monsters controlling people, there was some guy's giant head who showed up and shot lasers out of his eyes every once in a while[3], but I don't remember who he was. It was a freaking mess. Where was FF13's Golbez/Kefka/Sephiroth/Edea?

In FF13 you have a 3-minute movie [1] of that doo-rag wearing guy flying around in a space ship with his girlfriend and they pretty much scream "I LUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRVEEEEE YOUUUUUUUU" and start making out while J-Pop plays and fireworks and explosions go off in the background. I couldn't possibly care less. It's contrived and they're beating you upside the head with it.

Whereas I just played FF6 again last month, and Locke and Celes have an interesting relationship (given the small amount of dialog in the game) because it's subtle and has a little mystery to it. It's not the point of the game, the point of the game is to play the game. You become attached to the characters because you have so much fun fighting battles with them. You customize them and grow them and they become yours. I don't need to see Locke and Celes flying around on a spaceship.

I looked up the script for FF6; do you know how many lines of dialog Shadow has in that game? 38. And many of them are "Go!" or "Run!". But you remember his character because the character (like the game) has atmosphere. Same for most of the other characters.

Surely everyone has seen the Plinkett Star Wars review [2] where he talks about how no one in the Phantom Menace actually has a personality. Do the same test on FF13.

FF6:
Terra: Half-esper girl who doesn't know where she belongs, is trying to learn how to form relationships with people
Locke: Thief who wants to protect people because of his girlfriend being sick or whatever
Celes: Ex-badguy, morally conflicted, independent and strong
Kefka: Insane psycho clown

FF7:
Cloud: Self-doubting guy with issues who works through them to become strong eventually
Barret: Loud, pushy macho guy with a caring side for his daughter/friends
Cid: Foul-mouthed guy with leadership skills and a tragic past that left him angry, or something
Sephiroth: Is Sephiroth.

FF13:
Lightning: Admittedly badass. Also... grumpy?
Vanille: Dunno.
Sazh: I remember he had a chocobo on his head and had guns.
Fang: No freaking clue. I forgot she was in the game until I just looked her up. Tall and had an accent. Was friends (sister? girlfriend?) with Vanille.
Snow: I know he had a girlfriend and was voice-acted by Troy Baker.
Villain: A giant head with laser eyes.

Maybe it's because I haven't played FF13 as much as those others, but all the characters seemed so generic and forgettable.

The best Final Fantasy of this generation was probably Lost Odyssey. The characters were silly-looking, but very memorable. The character customization was great. The dream sequences were impressive plot and character development for a video game. The world had interesting places to explore; it was pretty much riding the rails JRPG style, but there were cool environments. You got a boat and you got to drive it around! Battles were just turn-based with a timed-hit system, but it was fun enough and challenging at times. The villain was ridiculous, but at least the game had a clear villain with a clearly-defined goal and the PCs had good personal motivation to be doing things to stop him. The game had simple, well-executed parts that fit together well.

[1]: Final Fantasy XIII - Serah and Snow Fireworks Scene [Japanese] [HD] - YouTube
[2]: Star Wars: The Phantom Menace Review (Part 1 of 7) - YouTube
[3]: Final Fantasy XIII Chapter 9 Boss Fight 2 Barthandelus - YouTube

I think, for me at least, what they're missing is a diverse catalog and a sense of being progressive.

In the SNES and PlayStation days, Square experimented all the time and consistently brought out new IPs while keeping multiple series' going, all with cutting edge production values and design. The PlayStation alone had installments in the FF, SaGa, and Mana series while creating tons of new IPs like Brave Fencer, Xenogears, Parasite Eve, Ergheiz, and Vagrant Story. There was a real sense in the 1990s that Square was a very progressive company always on the cutting edge and starting new trends in the industry.

Now, they couldn't be farther from it. It seems like every game they put any amount of effort into always has "Final Fantasy" or "Dragon Quest" in the title, and games that would make for perfect new IPs are always released as spin-offs of one of those popular series. What few new IPs they do bring out always seem delegated to the mobile platforms, which I dislike, instead of consistently bringing out cutting edge and varied console titles with spectacular production values. I miss the Square that brought grand console role-playing experiences consistently and on a frequent basis, I don't want to see IPs with great potential having that potential squandered by releasing on platforms like iOS and Android.

So, I guess to sum it up, Square is missing a varied release schedule on consoles with multiple strong IPs, along with a willingness to experiment with new series.

I think fans miss Sakaguchi, honestly. He's a bit wacky, but Mistwalker has turned out games that have been at least critically successful, if not as commercially. Square Enix are getting decent sales but people aren't that impressed. Or maybe they are? I don't know, we always talk about this, but people are buying the games.

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Originally Posted by Shoeberto

Stop letting management decide what is marketable. And for god's sake, stop trying to make all of the characters look like J-pop stars.

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>>> This..

Old square used to create new trends instead of following them..:luca:

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Originally Posted by Dr Unne

Lightning: Admittedly badass. Also... grumpy?
Vanille: Dunno.
Sazh: I remember he had a chocobo on his head and had guns.
Fang: No freaking clue. I forgot she was in the game until I just looked her up. Tall and had an accent. Was friends (sister? girlfriend?) with Vanille.
Snow: I know he had a girlfriend and was voice-acted by Troy Baker.
Villain: A giant head with laser eyes.

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Lightning: Emotionally stumped military girl who dislikes Snow because he acts like he can be the hero even though he doesn't know trout about what it takes
Sazh: Wants to save his son from eternal crystal prison
Fang: Wants to protect Vanille because of some promise she made to her.
Snow: Idiot with a hero complex. Doesn't actually know anything about anything. Dates Lightning's sister.
Hope: Some dumb kid with logical thinking issues

Villain: Wants to destroy humans because he wants to stop being their slave but he can't actually kill them directly so he manipulates humans to destroy their own world.

I also just played the game once, and I didn't really care all that much about it.

Battlefront: like Star Wars Battlefront, I've mentioned this several times on these forums. I relish the possibility of being able to fight full-scale battles between Final Fantasy armies like the Wild Rose Rebellion, Emperor Palamecia's Army, The Red Wings, The Dwarves of FFIV, The Empire, The Returners, ShinRa, AVALANCHE, SeeD, Galbadia, Alexandria, Burmecia, Lindblum, Terra, Zanarkand, Bevelle, Archadia, Rozarria, PSICOM, Cavalry, etc.
The concept, I suppose, is not much different from Dissidia. Not just controlling familiar armies, but fighting familiar creatures in familiar places, using weapons and vehicles mostly unavailable to the main characters throughout the franchise, and naturally, as in SWB2, you would be able to control main characters from the FF series, but not just the heroes. You could control Reno, Rude, or Rufus, etc. from FF7, Goldor or Xande from FF3, Tantalus Troupe members, Blitzballers, etc. etc.

I am a greedy little nerd, ain't I?

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Originally Posted by Final Fantasy games by Square-Enix

Final Fantasy X-2
Final Fantasy VII Snowboarding
Final Fantasy Tactics Advance
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles series
Before Crisis: Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy XII
Dirge of Cerberus: Final Fantasy VII
Crisis Core: Final Fantasy VII
Final Fantasy XII: Revenant Wings
Final Fantasy Tactics A2: Grimoire of the Rift
Final Fantasy IV: The After Years
Dissidia Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy XIII
Crystal Defenders series
Final Fantasy Dimensions
Final Fantasy: The 4 Heroes of Light
Final Fantasy XIII-2
Final Fantasy Airborne Brigade
Final Fantasy XIV: Online
Theatrhythm Final Fantasy
Dissidia 012 Final Fantasy
Final Fantasy Artniks
Final Fantasy Tactics S
Final Fantasy All the Bravest

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What do you think fans feel is missing from Square Enix?

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A decent Final Fantasy game.

I think almost everyone has hit it on the head.

What's really missing for me now is the sense of Wonder. The last few FF games have seemed so rote, almost like there was a basic formula the story needs to follow, a point A to B to C that takes the sense of scope and of adventure out of playing.

The last game I played recently that had this for me was Xenoblade Chronicles on the Wii. The game had everything I think SE is missing: Likeable, memorable characters, a lush world, rich in detail and history, a customizable party, a great musical score and best of all, the chance to explore. Yes of course you had your sort of standard chosen one hero arc but it wasn't always in the front of the plot and I still enjoyed the twists along the way because I didn't see each one coming. Also, compelling villains who aren't just bent of destruction for destructions sake.

Really, it's just about creating a fully developed story with characters worth getting connected to. If I'm going to devote 50+ hours to a story, I want to feel like I went on an adventure with people I care about.

They can still fix it but lately they don't seem willing to try. They'd rather stick to a money making formula and it has, for me and for many, alienated a good portion of their fans.

Take care all.

It's funny when I actually read this thread to find that pretty much only four or five people mentioned things other than Final Fantasy (even my own initial post was just a plea regarding FF:Battlefront).

Regarding the main entries: I don't think people should be bitching about this anymore. SE has a pattern. Every console gets three main entries. Sure, I wish they would perform seppuku for making two of the main entries online only. But honestly, I feel the main reason people bitch about this is because of SE promoting their main entries so heavily. They entice us for years about how awesome a title is expected to be and then we find out they're not even working on it. If they'd keep their damned mouths shut, they could better force us to enjoy the games they're already putting out. SE isn't Final Fantasy. They have other stuff to offer and even Final Fantasy sequels and spin-offs would be fine if they'd actually have good storylines and decent gameplay to offer.

If they made more KH games that didn't just rehash old worlds (like BBS and 3Ds) that would be quite the boon.