Gaming Heaven...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bolivar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyblade

I haven't found anyone who has claimed that the Vita has more than five good games.

---

If this is how you honestly feel, then we probably aren't going to get anywhere in this discussion.

---

It's not a "feeling", it's a fact. No one I know who owns a Vita, whether it's someone I know in person, or someone I know online, believes that the Vita has a good lineup, or can name a reasonable amount of quality titles for it. If you eliminate titles that aren't exclusive to it, such as most of the PSN library and the PS4 native play, and the ports from previous systems, like the HD collections, the list shrinks even more.

It's not that I'm hating on the Vita. I adore it. I think it is incredibly well crafted system (except for the rear touchscreen, because WHY?! [Tearaway is thus far the only answer to that]), and it has some great games. I would love to see more for it. I would also like to see ports of more PS2 era games to the console, as both Persona 4 Golden and Final Fantasy X/X-2 HD are really good. Tearaway is incredibly fun, and Gravity Rush is quite solid. Dragon's Crown is a fun reminder of Golden Axe style gameplay. But what else is there?

This is a serious question. I don't know that many more PS Vita titles that would be worth owning. Suggest them. Build a list. I welcome it. I would love more games on my Vita.



However, for the purposes of this thread, or deciding which system is better, I will be comparing your list to the 3DS library. Just keep that in mind.

When you do so, will you be able to list games outside of franchises whose best days are long behind them?

Probably not, and that's why the Vita offers a much more comprehensive library on 3 fronts. 1) Its exclusives are actually innovative titles coming from new IPs, to go alongside fresh franchises. 2) Like any great system, it has wonderful versions of some of the best multiplatform games. 3) It cherry-picked the best and the brightest indie games of the last few years and now those games are releasing day one on Vita, some of them exclusively. If you haven't noticed, each of these 9 games represents a unique genre.

Its hard to go back to 3DS sequels when the Vita's library is so much more fresh and exciting. I enjoyed Fire Emblem Awakening and Etrian Odyssey IV in spite of them being stuck in the Stone Age of JRPGs. A Link Between Worlds, my favorite game, epitomizes the first sentence of this post, as I yearned for the challenge and originality of Link's Awakening and Ages/Seasons. Mario 3D Land drives it home with great gameplay soured by short and easy levels filled with recycled ideas. Little Big Planet was everything I hoped Mario would be - hearty levels flavored with fun surprises and innovative mechanics, making full of use of the touch screen, track pad, and gyroscope. It also has a great user-generated content community, seamless online multiplayer, and one of the most innovative approaches to local multiplayer I have ever seen on a handheld.

The Vita is one of those rare systems that both drives and rides the cutting-edge of gaming, while the 3DS watches it pass by. You seem only concerned with the library and I can see why. The 3DS falls even further behind compared to what the Vita can do: Remote Play for every PS4 game, the wider range of apps, free to play mobile titles, and the cross-buy program. I've also had a lot of fun with Lone Survivor, Street Fighter x Tekken, Unit 13, ModNation Racers Road Trip through PS+ and I get more free games every month.

I know you prefer the 3DS, but as someone who has spent a ton of time with both, it's not even close.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scotty_ffgamer

Home Consoles:
NES
SNES
PS1
PS2
PS3

---

This for me too. The Gamecube and N64 were excellent but Sony have ruled the home console market since the mid-nineties for me. The 360 and the PS3 is probably the closest with the latter just edging it in my opinion.

As far as handhelds go, that is Nintendo's domain. I own a PS Vita and a 3DS. I have all my PS1 classics on my Vita so that gets the most usage. In terms of quality games for the system though the 3DS is streets ahead. I've been extremely disappointed with the games that have been released for Vita. The only original game I thought was excellent has been Gravity Rush. Considering I've had my Vita for two years now it really isn't good enough.

I can't fully answer you on my phone (or even see what games you linked), so that'll have to wait until I get back home.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bolivar

Its hard to go back to 3DS sequels when the Vita's library is so much more fresh and exciting. I enjoyed Fire Emblem Awakening and Etrian Odyssey IV in spite of them being stuck in the Stone Age of JRPGs. A Link Between Worlds, my favorite game, epitomizes the first sentence of this post, as I yearned for the challenge and originality of Link's Awakening and Ages/Seasons. Mario 3D Land drives it home with great gameplay soured by short and easy levels filled with recycled ideas. Little Big Planet was everything I hoped Mario would be - hearty levels flavored with fun surprises and innovative mechanics, making full of use of the touch screen, track pad, and gyroscope. It also has a great user-generated content community, seamless online multiplayer, and one of the most innovative approaches to local multiplayer I have ever seen on a handheld.

---

If by "Stone Age of JRPGs" you mean "Golden Age of Gaming", I'll agree with you. Bravely Default falls into that category as well, where designers have cut out the junk that has been weighing down the genre these past years and focused on the core, and making that excel.

And if you honestly think that the Oracle games were more innovative than Link Between Worlds, you're making me wonder just how much is nostalgia goggles, and how much is lack of proper observation, because LBW is probably the most innovative 2D game the series has had.

Quote:

---

The Vita is one of those rare systems that both drives and rides the cutting-edge of gaming, while the 3DS watches it pass by. You seem only concerned with the library and I can see why. The 3DS falls even further behind compared to what the Vita can do: Remote Play for every PS4 game, the wider range of apps, free to play mobile titles, and the cross-buy program. I've also had a lot of fun with Lone Survivor, Street Fighter x Tekken, Unit 13, ModNation Racers Road Trip through PS+ and I get more free games every month.

---

And the PS4 can post things to Facebook, but that's hardly a reason to get the system. I focus on the library because the library is what matters. If I want something that can play console games on handheld, that's awesome (though it's becoming more and more common). If I want a game system, I look to the games.

Also, you pay for PS+, and only get the games while you do. They are not "free".

Gravity Rush, Soul Sacrifice, Uncharted: Golden Abyss, Sonic & All-Stars Racing: Transformed, The Walking Dead, Hotline Miami, Fez, Luftrausers, and Olli Olli. You mentioned Dragon's Crown and Tearaway, and I added four more. That's 15 titles I'm going to assume Bubba has not played.

I don't want to get bogged down in the specifics of each game, but the titles you're mentioning are highly derivative of decades-old franchises and mechanics. I expect you'll only continue that trend when you get back.

And whether these games are free or not, I can't even fit all the ones I actually want to play on a 16GB card, much less the total games I have received in the few months I have subscribed to PS+. It's really hard for the 3DS to overcome that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Scotty_ffgamer

Home Consoles:
NES
SNES
PS1
PS2
PS3

---

Yep. Add to that PS4, because I'm more likely to get that than an XBone. And as for Handhelds, Nintendo straight through, even if most of my GBA/DS gaming was done in ROM form.

Platformer. RPG. Action. Adventure. Racer. Shooter. Puzzle.

Pretty much every game every made can be broken down into "derivative of decades old mechanics and franchises". That's why we have genres. How many Indy games out there can be traced back directly to mechanics and themes from preexisting games? Almost all of them. There is nothing wrong with derivation, and there is nothing praiseworthy about innovation for the sake of innovation. Heck, if you hadn't noticed, Bravely Default has been considered (by both players and critics) the best Final Fantasy in a decade because it's more traditional or "derivative".



That said, I'll happily check the games on your list when I get home, and see what I think.

Working off the presumption that this is a hypothetical: I'll base it on the number of games I've played/owned per system.

80's: NES
90's: PlayStation
00's: PlayStation2
2010: PlayStation3

Any of the games I've played on my Vita I simply don't enjoy as much as my 3DS, and 3DS has more volume for me.

That said, I very much enjoy my VIta, and I'm am happy to have both. :p

Edit: And neither Link Between Worlds or the Oracle games were all that innovative. :p

Yeah now that we can reflect a little, it does look like Sony has been dominant for a while. Weird. I got way more games for my 360 but a lot of them were just... okay.

Okay well I'm gonna buck the trend here by not mentioning a Sony console :shobon:

ColecoVision
NES
SNES
N64
PC (Better during this era than anything else sixth gen)
Xbox 360 (Although I actually I want to pick PC again but rules is rules)
The only "current gen" console I actually own is Nintendo 3DS so it wins by default, although if I could hand it to PC again I would.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Pretty much every game every made can be broken down into "derivative of decades old mechanics and franchises". That's why we have genres. How many Indy games out there can be traced back directly to mechanics and themes from preexisting games? Almost all of them. There is nothing wrong with derivation, and there is nothing praiseworthy about innovation for the sake of innovation. Heck, if you hadn't noticed, Bravely Default has been considered (by both players and critics) the best Final Fantasy in a decade because it's more traditional or "derivative".

...

That said, I'll happily check the games on your list when I get home, and see what I think.

---

Hey Sky, if you wanna go into more detail that's fine but I think you're making my argument out to be more than I'm actually saying. I'm not making a case for indie vs. the old guard, innovation vs. tradition, or even 3DS vs. Vita, believe it or not. I'm only shedding some light on why I, personally, favor my Vita over my 3DS right now. I totally empathize with why you'd rather have a lineup of killer RPGs - that's actually why I initially bought a 3DS over a Vita myself. In turn, I hope you can relate to why I'd rather listen to what the newer voices in gaming have to say. It's my opinion, so we don't really need to do the whole console wars thing, particularly when I like my 3DS quite a bit as well.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bolivar

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Skyblade

Pretty much every game every made can be broken down into "derivative of decades old mechanics and franchises". That's why we have genres. How many Indy games out there can be traced back directly to mechanics and themes from preexisting games? Almost all of them. There is nothing wrong with derivation, and there is nothing praiseworthy about innovation for the sake of innovation. Heck, if you hadn't noticed, Bravely Default has been considered (by both players and critics) the best Final Fantasy in a decade because it's more traditional or "derivative".

...

That said, I'll happily check the games on your list when I get home, and see what I think.

---

Hey Sky, if you wanna go into more detail that's fine but I think you're making my argument out to be more than I'm actually saying. I'm not making a case for indie vs. the old guard, innovation vs. tradition, or even 3DS vs. Vita, believe it or not. I'm only shedding some light on why I, personally, favor my Vita over my 3DS right now. I totally empathize with why you'd rather have a lineup of killer RPGs - that's actually why I initially bought a 3DS over a Vita myself. In turn, I hope you can relate to why I'd rather listen to what the newer voices in gaming have to say. It's my opinion, so we don't really need to do the whole console wars thing, particularly when I like my 3DS quite a bit as well.

---

I do understand that, and I'm checking into the games that you listed now. I haven't posted again because I don't like making snap decisions like that (plus I'm still working several other games while I'm doing so). However, your statement that I was focusing on derivative titles from ancient franchises really irks me, because almost all of gaming is derivative, including a lot of the titles you listed (gravity manipulation has been a mechanic since at least the NES era, for example).

And a lot of the titles I love on the 3DS are quite innovative. I can't really recall seeing something like Awakening's child unit system before. Link Between Worlds massively shifted the series formulae, including things like two dungeons which don't need items at all (ok, so Skull Woods requires the lamp ONCE, it's close enough), far more flexibility in puzzle solving that rewards creative thought (seriously, nearly half the puzzles in that game have multiple solutions), optional dungeons that both test mastery over your item use and train you in their multiple purposes, and well designed rewards for the incredibly long collection quest in the game. Bravely Default has the single most incredible turn-based RPG battle system I've ever seen. The Brave/Default mechanic offers such fantastic depth to the system that it's making me wish I had the feature in FFX HD.

Are the games derivative? Yes. But what isn't? How many truly unique games have you seen?

Don't expect an actual response on those games or my opinion of their quality for probably a month. I don't play games quickly, and you should know that by now.

That said, from a quick overview, you have at least done enough to justify the opinion you hold, which is what I was most interested in. I don't agree with your position, and I highly doubt I will, but I can at least understand it, and I really couldn't before.

My list still stands. :D

Third Generation: Nintendo
Fourth Generation: Super Nintendo/Game Boy
Fifth Generation: PlayStation/Game Boy Color
Sixth Generation: PlayStation 2/Game Boy Advance
Seventh Generation: Xbox 360/Nintendo DS
Eighth Generation: I'm really not sure yet.

This was really easy until I got to the seventh generation. I'm on the fence when it comes to 360 vs. PS3.

Color TV Game
Atari 2600
NES
Sega Genesis
PlayStation (hardest one to choose)
PS2
Xbox 360
PS4

Game Boy Color
Game Boy Advance
Nintendo DS
3DS