Well in that case, SE should step up their game then. No pun intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
I did enjoy TWEWY though, but wouldn't put it as my favourite. Hence Deus Ex: HR got my vote.
Well in that case, SE should step up their game then. No pun intended.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
I did enjoy TWEWY though, but wouldn't put it as my favourite. Hence Deus Ex: HR got my vote.
We are ranking all of the Disney movies just now, and Toy story is at the top for me. It's kind of cheating.Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Murder
Well, the Japanese teams don't make many non-FF/DQ/KH games anymore, so the thread title forces us to look to the output of their western colleagues. Their games are distinguishable from titles mentioned here like Star Ocean and Bravely Default, that truly were made by outside studios. At some point we need to accept the Eidos devs are Square Enix employees and if we want to exclude their games from conversations about Square, then we need to do the same for Dragon Quest games, especially the ones developed by Level-5, Heartbeat and Chunsoft (which is all of them).
If you had to twist my arm, I would say Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, which I only omitted in the first place because some EoFFers get quite upset when you treat it like a new game...
There is a distinct difference here, while DQ has always been made by outsourced companies, the initial game design and concept originate and were developed by Enix itself which was merged with SE and can be thought of as being on equal standing with FF as co-owners of the property. Their is also more collaboration between Square and Enix on their titles, though mostly their non-flagship titles.Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Eidos on the otherhand was bought out and their relationship to Squenix is more of a Second-Party Developer to a First Party Developer as opposed to two First Party developers cohabiting and getting into each others business, as opposed to Eidos which basically exists like it did before being bought out and simply changed the name on the intro of the disc from Eidos to Square-Enix Europe.
I think the real issue here though is that saying Eidos IPs are your favorite Squenix game is like saying The Avengers are your favorite Disney IP, on a legal standpoint its a valid statement but its hard to associate IPs that have pre-existed from a merger or acquisition as belonging to the new company when you still associate them with the old company; and technically said old company still exists rather autonomously from its new parent company, who simply bankrolls them and doesn't really get into their business on how they do things. Its not like Eidos was dissovled and SE made a whole new team to do these games, they bought a company and acquired their IPs and basically leave most of it up to the original company to see it through. Its not like Kitase takes trips out to Cali to make sure that Crystal Dynamics are following company policy and helping them co-develop the game, nor does Eidos really have any say on what the next Final Fantasy or Dragon Quest game is going to be like despite all of them being employees to the same company.
This is not saying that I would disqualify Eidos games from this thread topic as much as I find it sad that no one can think of a non-main franchise title they love out of the Japanese studios due to very few being produced or lack of quality. :(
I think its more of the sad state affair that we have to resort to a remake/port as being great instead of a new IP but that has more to do with the state of the company, besides I feel the real issue you get from other EoFFers is when you make that argument for why a portable system has a great library when many of its outstanding games are ports of older games people have played a few times as opposed to listing original games made for the system proper. ;)Quote:
If you had to twist my arm, I would say Tactics Ogre: Let Us Cling Together, which I only omitted in the first place because some EoFFers get quite upset when you treat it like a new game...
It's like being invited to a party, deciding to bring your friend along only to have everyone like your friend better than you. Then deciding your friend doesn't... count... :erm: (ok, that last bit doesn't make sense, moving on).
I think SE produce some great games but once you've taken away pretty much all their catalog, its difficult to find anything else that is 'pure' Square Enix (even TWEWY), and even more so to find something many would call their favourite.
Basically i think in this case, Eidos should most definitely be included. If on the other hand we were talking about games developed by SE's Japan development studio and no other party then... Seriously, someone tell me.
By the way just to clarify, I understand the argument regarding TWEWY being more 'Square Enix' than Eidos developed games, but I think we need to be a bit lenient here otherwise things get a bit ridiculous.
As I said, I'm fine with listing Eidos games, I'm just pointing out why some people would feel that Eidos is cheating. Of anything this just kind of shows how SE's in-house has largely ignored making games beyond their flagship series and instead fill the void by publishing other famous series they have acquired through buyouts of the original IP holders. To be fair to SE we should be happy they still support some of these series that many people grew up on, though I'll agree with that statement when they finally finish the Legacy of Kain franchise. :colbert:
Oh, I wasn't try to counter your post or anything, I actually agree with you. Was just adding more of my thoughts to the discussion.
You've more or less admitted the preconceptions you're trying to justify and it seems like you would have been better served by creating a different thread, rather than the selective criteria in the title, much less the mental gymnastics you perform to disqualify games finished with Square Enix resources by Square Enix employees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
I didn't disqualify any games Bolivar if you check the posts, I simply pointed out why others did. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by BolivarYou've more or less admitted the preconceptions you're trying to justify and it seems like you would have been better served by creating a different thread, rather than the selective criteria in the title, much less the mental gymnastics you perform to disqualify games finished with Square Enix resources by Square Enix employees.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno
Yet since my ruse has been discovered, why do you think SE has chosen to go this route instead of the former route which had succeeded so well for them in the past?
Well, in this case, I remember a while back there was a big thing about Squeenix focusing on solely on their flagship series, and nothing else, because TWEWY flopped. So yeah, I believe they went through a period in which they would take no risks.
When I get home I'll see if I can dig through the ancient articles on SE and find proof of this totally not made up story.
No, I don't think it's made up, I remember something like that, too.
I would also look at their financial troubles in the early 2000s and the merger with Enix as root causes but it's also the nature of the beast. Square Enix is a publicly traded company, so they have a legal obligation to make money for the people who trust them with their money (much of which is the life savings of average everyday people). So I can understand, even sympathize with, them avoiding risk, as everyone wishes business could be more predictable. They could try crazy ideas and push new IPs to potentially, one day, lead to huge rewards, or they could just make polished, well-made versions of the celebrated IPs they already own.
I would prefer they do a little bit of both and that certainly seems to be the strategy going forward, hence why so many people are excited about Square Enix being back on top!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolivar
Agreed. I think a little push here and there to try out new concepts and ideas is the way to go. In fact, it's one of the things i always liked about the FF series, in that each iteration would have a little bit different than the previous, why still feeling familiar and true to what makes a FINAL FANTASY a FINAL FANTASY game.
The right answer.Quote:
Originally Posted by shion