Persona 5 News

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Originally Posted by Ergroilnin

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

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It's not that the Persona games aren't mature in context or don't tuckle the darker themes. After all most Atlus games have more or less really dark themes even if the games look bright on the surface.

It's just that playing as 16 years olds all the time does get a bit boring after a while. I am not saying we need to play as 60 yo geezers but having party that's in college would be I think ideal. Not too young, not too old. Not to mention there could be new things and social links that wouldn't fit in high school enviroment.

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I am curious to hear what social link/story topics a college/working stiff protagonist could bring to the series that can't actually be done with a high school setting, I only say this because Japanese high school is probably closer to Western-style college than our high schools are. I mean I used to think an older cast would be good too until I came to this realization.

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Originally Posted by Ergroilnin

It's just that playing as 16 years olds all the time does get a bit boring after a while.

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Basically this. Also, as I grow older, I'm finding it harder and harder to empathise with the playable characters. Like, Persona 4 was praised a lot for the character depth (admittedly loads more than the average jRPG) but at the end end of the day the struggles of the PCs really felt like, well, teenage stuff (relationships, finding your "true self", SCHOOL etc. etc.)

Sure, you could argue that there are a shed load of characters outside the playable cast providing maturity in whatever way we'd like, but all the focus on SCHOOL gets a bit tiresome, you know?

Don't Japs get all crazeyh during college with those hairstyles n stuff? Like last blow before work? That could be one for example.

From what I understand Japanese College is pretty much a break, most of their real education is in high school and college is pretty much for socializing and goofing off.

Yellow_Magic: I agree about P4 being mostly about silly teenage drama which is largely why I like the P3 cast better because despite being high school students, they were dealing with revenge, regret for killing a person, losing family and loved ones and living with the shame of your family legacy. Honestly not a single character had any real teenage drama that a teenager would have to grapple with and that is why I can feel confident about sticking to the HS element because they prove they can still deal with mature subject matters with young characters when written right.

The issue with college is that it doesn't offer anything new, you are basically just making them older but it wouldn't change the club activities or people you meet very much. You just get the reassurance you're playing someone older than eighteen which in my mind is a waste. Adults also wouldn't work as well from a social link level because frankly adulthood sucks for social gatherings in a realistic setting as we're all building family's and careers while losing touch with old friends and our world gets more narrow. I'm not saying it can be done but I feel the HS scenario offers more variety and easier means of breaking willing-suspension of disbelief with eccentric characters.

As I said, I have yet to see someone come up with a strong scenario that justifies an older cast that either couldn't be done with a HS cast.

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Maybe even 4k support.

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Sure, because nothing benefits a game more than supporting people wasting their money on TV's with resolutions they'll barely see a difference in unless they sit about two feet away from the screen.

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I'm sorry you have poor vision or a small TV :(.

Silly insults aside, I think you're overestimating how much work would be needed to maybe add 4k support. I've never seen Persona (or SMT for that matter) as a series with cutting-edge graphics. It's mostly been low-poly stuff with relatively simple effects but cool art direction. I think it's a safe assumption that P5 wasn't going to push the limits of the PS3, and when we now get that game on PS4, I don't think it's very far fetched to think that the PS4 might be able to run the game in a significantly higher resolution than 1920x1080. If the console has enough power, it would almost be silly not to put in the very small amount of work that it would require to enable higher resolutions.

I'm going to admit that I don't even have a 4k display, and that I probably wouldn't notice much of a difference on my 42" at ~3 meters viewing distance. However, my next TV will probably be well over 50 inches, and at those sizes, that extra resolution really does make a difference, especially in games, where you have a more sharp lines and contrasts than in "live action" stuff.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Maybe even 4k support.

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Sure, because nothing benefits a game more than supporting people wasting their money on TV's with resolutions they'll barely see a difference in unless they sit about two feet away from the screen.

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I'm sorry you have poor vision or a small TV :(.

Silly insults aside, I think you're overestimating how much work would be needed to maybe add 4k support.

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I never said it would be a lot of work. But it is pretty useless right now since it's nearly impossible to distinguish any difference between the picture on a good 1080p tv and a UHDTV. The TV's themselves are simply a waste of money if you're thinking a resolution that high matters on screens that small. If the extra pixels aren't being put to use to increase how much you can see, there's literally no benefit to a game bothering with it. Especially when the tech is still pretty new and the TV's are a complete rip off at around $5k for what they actually offer the buyer.

When they can cram that resolution into a TV for under a grand and every TV offers those resolutions because it's cheap so why the hell not, then it'd be worth at least supporting. But until I can get a TV as large as the wall of my living room it has absolutely no practical benefit to anyone. Supporting TV's with refresh rates of 120Hz or greater by offering frame rates that aren't laughably slow is the most useful thing they could be doing to support better TV's these days.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

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Originally Posted by Vivi22

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Maybe even 4k support.

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Sure, because nothing benefits a game more than supporting people wasting their money on TV's with resolutions they'll barely see a difference in unless they sit about two feet away from the screen.

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I'm sorry you have poor vision or a small TV :(.

Silly insults aside, I think you're overestimating how much work would be needed to maybe add 4k support. I've never seen Persona (or SMT for that matter) as a series with cutting-edge graphics. It's mostly been low-poly stuff with relatively simple effects but cool art direction. I think it's a safe assumption that P5 wasn't going to push the limits of the PS3, and when we now get that game on PS4, I don't think it's very far fetched to think that the PS4 might be able to run the game in a significantly higher resolution than 1920x1080. If the console has enough power, it would almost be silly not to put in the very small amount of work that it would require to enable higher resolutions.

I'm going to admit that I don't even have a 4k display, and that I probably wouldn't notice much of a difference on my 42" at ~3 meters viewing distance. However, my next TV will probably be well over 50 inches, and at those sizes, that extra resolution really does make a difference, especially in games, where you have a more sharp lines and contrasts than in "live action" stuff.

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So what your saying is it would look absolutely fantastic on my 55? :D

Yes, neocracker, that is what I'm saying. If your 55" can do 4k.

Anyway Vivi, what is and isn't indistinguishable to you doesn't really affect what's distinguishable to me :p.
In either case, if the PS4 can run the game at 4k, why not do it? I can think of a couple of reasons why they should, but not many reasons why they should not.

First, it "looks good" in ads. Not many games can brag about supporting 4k resolution and still have a playable framerate. It might get some attention because of that, and it wouldn't be negative attention. Second, it would make the game look sharp and crisp for a very long time. People who are late on getting new game systems and games could load up the game in 2017 (when 4k is probably more common) and still think "hey that's pretty darn sharp for being several years old".

I imagine playtesting the most graphically intensive parts of the game in 4k would take longer than it would to actually implement the resolution mode. I still don't think that's gonna be a significant portion of their budget.

And as much as i would like 120fps in console games, it's pretty unrealistic. In fact, even a stable 60fps at 1080p seems to be too much to ask for in this current gen.

I guess my problem with the series so far was that I couldn't get into how P3 played, so I never got to experience the plot and characters properly. I more got into P4 for some reason, and while I loved it, it very much was a lot of teenager stuff. My thing for wanting an older cast would simply be to force the writers arms in making teenage drama. They'd HAVE to explore other venues for character development and drama. It's hard to relate to a character when you're 30 and they're still getting grounded by their parent/guardian and getting lectures and reprimanded for things. It does what the game aims for, but what the game aims for is sadly just not for me. If they are at college, this becomes less of an issue. I think that was my biggest problem with P4. Having to keep your uncle happy. In that regard, I think P3 kinda pulled me out with the lectures and quizzes. Very school'y and unrelatable. If they do this sort of thing, I would much prefer the main protagonist be an actual character, rather than be an avatar of mine. It doesn't make a very good avatar if I can't relate to it. Other than that, the plots and subject matters were very nice. But as Vivi said, I'm older, and just can't stop yearning to see what writers for video games can do. They just refuse to do. And that need to satiate curiosity typically saps enjoyment of games with children as cast that I might otherwise have had. And arguably the game even deserves to have, because my distaste is completely biased on my part (fully admitted)

I don't know man, a game where your protagonist is a 30 something with a dead end office job and the wife and 2.5 kids you have to deal with every day and your only moment of freedom is going bowling with your high school/college friends who all spend their time yearning for the "good old days of high school" just doesn't sound like an engaging story for me.

I'm not saying an adult wouldn't work but it would seriously shift the dynamics and likely alienate more demographics in the long run, at least us old people remember high school and can relate to it, what's a tween going to do when their main antagonist has to worry about fighting Shadows, getting their mortgage bill paid on time, and dealing with a teething baby? Not exactly ideal material for a supernatural drama set in the real world that will appeal to a large demographic. Again I would love to hear ideas from peeps about what a college-aged group of characters could bring to the narrative and social links that can't already be accomplished with the current formula.

Well, yeah. When you put it like that. That's really not the kind of adult-life I would imagine of a modern video game protagonist lol But again, my biggest problem was being lectured by a father figure

I'd picture something more along the lines of some mid-20's something person renting a house with 4 other people, having an active social/dating life. Some non-boring job that might add to the dynamic of the game. Not to pull too much from P4 but a detective or something would probably work great. Though these days too many modern Japanese games have that sorta thing. But it's at least a gateway idea. Adults are still capable of extra-curricular activities. They were never a huge deal in P4, it was just a chance to meet people. So bowling isn't really a bad one, but it'd be more like game nights, or book clubs, or going to the gym and stuff

It's weird, because I see things the exact opposite as you. I don't think being a teenager adds anything that being adult couldn't also be done. The only real counter-argument I can concede is just "if it's not broke don't fix it". But it could still easily be done and I'd see little reason not to. But to each their own

Well... the trailer gave us almost nothing to go on. The art direction is still as awesome as ever though. :)

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Originally Posted by Vyk

Well, yeah. When you put it like that. That's really not the kind of adult-life I would imagine of a modern video game protagonist lol But again, my biggest problem was being lectured by a father figure

I'd picture something more along the lines of some mid-20's something person renting a house with 4 other people, having an active social/dating life. Some non-boring job that might add to the dynamic of the game. Not to pull too much from P4 but a detective or something would probably work great. Though these days too many modern Japanese games have that sorta thing. But it's at least a gateway idea. Adults are still capable of extra-curricular activities. They were never a huge deal in P4, it was just a chance to meet people. So bowling isn't really a bad one, but it'd be more like game nights, or book clubs, or going to the gym and stuff

It's weird, because I see things the exact opposite as you. I don't think being a teenager adds anything that being adult couldn't also be done. The only real counter-argument I can concede is just "if it's not broke don't fix it". But it could still easily be done and I'd see little reason not to. But to each their own

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So basically you want to play a TV sitcom version of adult life. ;)

Honestly I don't see the issue with the father figure of anything I felt it actually added a new dynamic cause lord knows the cast of the first three games got away with murder while the adults twittered about. Of anything the family dynamic of the main character with his uncle and niece is probably one of the best written elements about P4 and if we were to go towards and adult character the best opportunity for expansion of the writing would be to make you a family man. There is no real benefit for making a twenty-something college student or some person living in an apartment that is going to expand the dynamic past what we are already experiencing with the current formula. If we go adult we have to bring the reality of it otherwise they would just be bowing down t silly pressure cause some middle-aged gamers feel ostracized but will be easily pacified by getting the same experience but making the cast all the same age as them. The social link dynamic is flexible and could work on many levels and I do feel an adult cast could work with it but I feel it would bring a very different experience and I feel it would probably turn away some people because it would involve really altering the mechanics and that's a risky move for any game company.

As I said, what does an adult character bring to the story that would make it a better writing experience for the players. In games like FF, it could open up new avenues of character dynamic and bring some fresh ideas to old standbys like love stories or more believability to the characters back story but Persona and Shin Megami Tensei in general has always dealt with a silent protagonist who is the player avatar. The game involve building up who this character is by the players choices but if you think about age doesn't really matter and making them a child vs. and old man would probably get you the same results in the long run. I'm not opposed to aging up the characters, I've just yet to see someone give a good reason why it should be the logical step besides "I'm tired of playing high school kids and want a relatable age group" but doing it for that is just pandering whereas I would prefer the choice be made because they feel it could be made into a powerful narrative.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

Yellow_Magic: I agree about P4 being mostly about silly teenage drama which is largely why I like the P3 cast better because despite being high school students, they were dealing with revenge, regret for killing a person, losing family and loved ones and living with the shame of your family legacy.

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Yeah, I can see where you're coming from and it definitely helps put P3 in a more positive light. Honestly, there wasn't a huge amount of school in Persona 3 as opposed to, like, saving the world etc., which made P3 feel more like any other old jRPG as opposed to P4...so while you could argue P3 achieved everything that would be possible with an older cast, one could counter with the idea that a high school cast wasn't needed in P3. It depends on how you look at the issue, I guess.

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The issue with college is that it doesn't offer anything new, you are basically just making them older but it wouldn't change the club activities or people you meet very much. You just get the reassurance you're playing someone older than eighteen which in my mind is a waste.

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I think it'd just make a nice change, personally. I don't really know much about how Japanese colleges operate, myself, but I'm guessing a large proportion of the western audience wouldn't and as such would be interested in comparing their own college lifestyles to the Japanese versions. Something to consider IMO

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Adults also wouldn't work as well from a social link level because frankly adulthood sucks for social gatherings in a realistic setting as we're all building family's and careers while losing touch with old friends and our world gets more narrow. I'm not saying it can be done but I feel the HS scenario offers more variety and easier means of breaking willing-suspension of disbelief with eccentric characters.

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Wow, you're certainly not helping me look forward to starting full-time work proper next week lol. I agree with you to an extent, but not ALL adults' lives are that, well, boring...

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As I said, I have yet to see someone come up with a strong scenario that justifies an older cast that either couldn't be done with a HS cast.

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I think Baofu and indeed, Ulala from Eternal Punishment are pretty good examples of such justification. Katsuya to a certain extent as well

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Originally Posted by Vyk

I'd picture something more along the lines of some mid-20's something person renting a house with 4 other people, having an active social/dating life. Some non-boring job that might add to the dynamic of the game. Not to pull too much from P4 but a detective or something would probably work great.

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You really should play Persona 2: Eternal Punishment if you haven't already, because it almost has exactly what you're looking for - even a detective!

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Originally Posted by Yellow_Magic

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Adults also wouldn't work as well from a social link level because frankly adulthood sucks for social gatherings in a realistic setting as we're all building family's and careers while losing touch with old friends and our world gets more narrow. I'm not saying it can be done but I feel the HS scenario offers more variety and easier means of breaking willing-suspension of disbelief with eccentric characters.

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Wow, you're certainly not helping me look forward to starting full-time work proper next week lol. I agree with you to an extent, but not ALL adults' lives are that, well, boring...

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Yes, they are.



There is a lot that can be lost when aging characters as well.

Adults far more flexible. It's easy to relate to school kids because we all went to school. If you go with an adult, though, how easy is it going to be? If how "relatable" the character will be is the concern, how can we all relate to such vastly different life experiences? Some of us work retail, some flip burgers, some join the military, some take on office work, some continue schooling. There isn't a common theme element that everyone is familiar with and can instantly relate to.

Then too, adults simply have less free time overall (as you settle into a career, it gets a bit better, but trust me, adults never have as much free time as it seems when you're a kid). This can destroy the structure of the games, giving less time for the actual adventure. Balance between the two is very important to the series, and shattering that balance could be detrimental. It places some structure and rigidity on life that simply isn't there. Even if you work a 9 to 5 job five days a week, you will do overtime, be called for special circumstances, etcetera. Getting rid of that sort of element would shatter some of the reality that the series grounds itself in so well.


On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing older characters. Mostly because I feel that older characters have a better chance of interacting with SEES, the Shadow Operatives, and the Investigation Team. I want more classic characters, and that means older ones, because the characters are aging (or more spin-offs like Persona Q). But there are problems there too. I mean, if we just started as a member of the Shadow Operatives, we would be an adult whose job was hunting down monsters. Kind of a blow to the legitimacy of the world, and that grounding in reality is something that is very important to Persona.

I do think it's possible (I even have a few ideas for how it might work), but it is something that would need to be handled carefully.

Fortunately, it's ATLUS. One of the fewer developers I can actually trust. Whatever they do, it's going to be awesome.