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I thought 13-2 had one of the worst stories I had ever seen, but I had a really good time doing the actual game part of the game, so I still did just about everything there was to do in that game. I feel somewhat the same about FFX-2, although I find that game's story to be just uninteresting and a bit dumb, but not directly repulsive like with 13-2. FFX-2 is probably one of the FF games I have spent the most time on, even if it I never really cared about the story.
Didn't mean to put words in your mouth. Just a simple misunderstanding. I was just picking examples to show a contrast on how I feel about games. Sorry to have included you in that example. I meant no offenseQuote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
Yes, I disagree with them. However I do not know how that makes you think I think "it has a bad story but good gameplay so I still love it". As far as it goes Final Fantasy XIII for me has good story and gameplay while having its flaws.Quote:
Originally Posted by VykThis is what I was referring to. I got the impression you were siding with the "millions of fans who disagree". Not that it matters. But just to answer your questionQuote:
Originally Posted by Sephiroth
But on topic: My thing tends to be if they're going to do it, they may as well do it well. Whether its the characters, gameplay, or story. If they're not going to do characters well, they may as well delegate them to a background or not really have them at all. Same with story. If they can't write well, embrace their terribleness. I don't mind camp. I don't mind poking fun at themselves. I don't mind well-done simple stories. But if they can't do a large-scale grand epic well, then they should just not. A lot of the more recent Final Fantasys I felt were failed grand epics and I would have probably loved them if they didn't take themselves so seriously, or perhaps just dialed it back and didn't try to make things so convoluted so it stayed in a capacity that the writers could actually achieve. And then there is of course gameplay. I don't think that it doesn't matter, but it doesn't have to be great either. Just entertaining to one degree or another
My favorite game has no story therefore gameplay > story.
yes I can and I do enjoy them.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony12
For me it really comes down to the game, because not all games need a narrative or even a really focused one which is how I can get behind stuff like Team Ico and ThatOneGameCompany titles because the narrative tends to be more bonus than the main event.
I think a great story with really bad gameplay can't save a game, like say Xenosaga Episode II, on the other hand a great gameplay can overcome a weak story. I generally agree with Pike that story should come second to gameplay in a game.
I do feel that a great story with mediocre gameplay can still make for a good game (Xenogears) and I also feel that great gameplay with a mediocre plot can make a good game as well (FFV) it just comes down to tolerance level I guess.
Well most of the time I prefer gameplay to story, considering it's game and I am supposed to have fun actually playing it. If I need a great story without playing, I may as well read a book or watch some movie.
That said, I don't ignore stories in the games at all, if game has both good gameplay and good story, I usually go back to it and replay it every once in a while.
Or you could watch a playthrough off of youtube. That is what I did with The Last of Us because I can absolutely not sit through gameplay mechanics anylonger.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ergroilnin
If there isn't much gameplay in the game, then there isn't much gameplay that can be bad :p.Quote:
Originally Posted by tony12
I'm fine with playing adventure games, although it's not my favourite genre.
It depends on what the game is focused on.
If the game has a clear intention from the start to focus on gameplay, I judge it by the gameplay. If the game has a clear intention from the start to focus on writing, story and characters, I judge it by the writing, story and characters. I split those three things up because it is very easy to confuse one of these things (story) with the other two (writing and characters). There are games that I feel have a terrible characters but a great story, and vice versa. Some have a crap story and characters, but the writing makes it worth pushing through because it's hilarious.
I highly doubt people judge Pacman, Sonic the Hedgehog, Tekken or Formula One Grand Prix based on story. If they do, power to them, but you get what I mean. I'm confident that someone who values story highly can still enjoy these games if they enjoy the gameplay.
Likewise, I highly doubt that people judge most point and click games on the gameplay. Many point and click games are just small puzzles to help you learn more about the story. Hell, even RPGs are often this way - the gameplay can be minimal but the story can be so deep that you just can't help yourself and keep chipping away.
In the end, it's just individual reaction. You either like something about a game for whatever reason or you don't for whatever reason. Thankfully I enjoy almost every game I play. I actually feel a little sorry for people who dislike games I enjoy. I feel they are missing out but it's not really their fault, it's just that they don't happen to like something. They are the losers in this situation. Not losers as an insult, but they are missing out on a source of enjoyment, so I consider myself a winner there. Likewise, I consider myself a loser when it comes to food. I dislike a large number of foods (well, not huge, but enough of them) and this means that I don't get to enjoy as many foods as others do. I can't help that, it's not my fault, but it's the way it is and I miss out on a source of enjoyment because I don't like mushrooms or fried tomato.
Very well said.. BoB wins the thread. Now that you mention it I'm kinda the same way. There are some fairly simplistic games I adore. Due to gameplay. And some broken games I adore for everything but gameplay
There are a lot of elements that can make or break game, even outside of gameplay and story, like music or voice acting. As long as everything is at least serviceable, which is fortunately the case for most video games, I can at least spend a few hours tinkering around.
I always say, though, that gameplay has become a lot more important to me as I've grown into my mid-20s. It's probably why I prefer Oblivion over the superior polish of Skyrim or the vastly more interesting Morrowind, because its quest progression and dungeoneering tops both of them. Xenogears is likely my last hurrah as far as playing an RPG with terrible game play solely for a good story, as I just don't have the free time to do that anymore. It's probably why i politely turned down Vivi's offer of a free Deus Ex key. Not saying it has bad gameplay, it just doesn't seem like it's aged well enough for me to slog through it to find out how great it is.
I think that the mixture of the two itself is what really makes a game good or bad. Granted, I'm much more likely to actually play a game that has good gameplay if it has a bad story than if a game has bad gameplay and a good story. But if the gameplay and the story complement one another, that's really best, I think.
Like BoB said it depends on the focus of the game but I tend towards games with good stories and only require the gameplay to not be tedious.
I agree with BoB, it is definitely based on what the game intended from the outset. You'd hardly judge Mario to be the pinnacle of a rich story (not that it's the pinnacle of game-play either, but you know).
The only grey area is when games appear to weigh both equally. The Mass Effect series appears to tread this line, in my opinion. Judging the Mass Effect series is impossible to do if you focus primarily on either game-play or story (shorthand for writing, story and characters, too difficult to write that all the time!). You have to judge it on both, and factor in both roughly 50/50 when making a final assessment.
My first games didn't really have story, just gameplay. That's what got me into games in the first place. I liked it because it was fun. If the game has a good story to compliment it, then I consider it a bonus feature. Because the gameplay is interactive and I think provides the most immersive experience, I think it's pretty darn important they get it right! I mean, great cutscenes are nice and all, but since most of your time is spent doing actual gameplay, doesn't that seem more important? It does to me, at least.
I can see how people whose first games were RPGs and such might think differently. My first games were side-scrolling action games. Pretty much just start and go. Zelda introduced me to action/adventure which tends to have story, but not let it overshadow gameplay. I liked the stories even more when I had fun exploring those worlds.
I had a hard time getting into RPGs because I originally didn't like the menu-based fighting mechanics. I always thought, "why bother clicking an option that says 'fight' when I could actually do it myself?" It didn't make sense to me and I thought it boring. But I was always impressed by how well-designed the other parts of the games were. They were very intricate in design with many collectibles and secrets to find. Eventually, I grew to like the traditional menu-based controls when I realized you can mix things up with proper strategy. So even though RPGs tend to be known for their story, I still like immersive worlds and the gameplay within so much more.
Yeah, I think that might be part of the fundamental difference in people's views. RPGs just spoke more to me as a medium. Then again, I'm a weirdo who was allowed to pull up at the table while my brothers were playing Dungeons and Dragons when I was only six years old. I was bred for role playing games
I mean, we started out with Mario and Castlevania of course. But those games didn't speak to me on the level that Final Fantasy and Dragon Warrior did when they finally rolled out. I kept playing random "gameplay" based games, but my favorite games always ended up being the RPGs. And I always considered them the novels of the video game world. Not sure why that analogy matters anymore. I guess that makes the other games the comic books of the medium lol
But yeah, it all bred me and trained my brain to care more about story and character than action, flashy cameras, or tight controls
But once in a while a great game with great controls will pull me out and show me what gameplay games are all about. And I appreciate those when they can come along and grab me