Most powerful FF Villain...

Yeah I noticed I forgot some people. Vayne is on the lowest tier, while he has access to an army and is highly intelligent, I'm sure Garland could ream him in a one on one fight. He's probably better than both in terms of resourcefulness and intelligence but he's less of a fighter than the Emperor.

Necron is basically CoD but whereas CoD kind of needs some Deus ex Machina shenanigans to even make it beatable, Zidane's crew have no issues beating Necron down. He's in a tier between top and god tier. Barty is in the same territory as Golbez and the others. He's powerful but never does anything special. In fact his only cheap power is making people into l'Cie and then making their focus be turning into Cieth but I doubt he could even do it considering so much of the cosmology of XIII's world seems to work within its own world, so I highly doubt he could do it seeing how I feel the fal'Cie power over people partly stems from being a creation from a mutual entity.

Things like a pseudo villain and natural godly entity from the beginning Dark Cloud are counted but not Bhunivelze?

AHA.

I might as well say creator god Hyne from FFVIII then. He had godly powers from the very beginning. He created everything. He was a villain because he killed his own creations instead of just letting them alive because they were too much of a problem. His power was the one Ultimecia would have achieved through Time Compression by reuniting all sorceress powers in her body.

Granted, being a creator god does not automatically mean anything but I at least wanted to point it out because it is definitely powerful.

Or Etro or Muin. And, and and.

Bringing in gods just because they "never became" gods like the main villains but where gods from the beginning is not fair though.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Things like a pseudo villain and natural godly entity from the beginning Dark Cloud are counted but not Bhunivelze?

AHA.

I might as well say creator god Hyne from FFVIII then. He had godly powers from the very beginning. He created everything. He was a villain because he killed his own creations instead of just letting them alive because they were too much of a problem. His power was the one Ultimecia would have achieved through Time Compression by reuniting all sorceress powers in her body.

Granted, being a creator god does not automatically mean anything but I at least wanted to point it out because it is definitely powerful.

Or Etro or Muin. And, and and.

Bringing in gods just because they "never became" gods like the main villains but where gods from the beginning is not fair though.

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Actually, if you notice I don't mention any of the sequels/prequel villains in my list. Largely because I hold true to Sakaguchi's intention that the numbered entries are meant to be standalone titles and thus all sequels/prequels/side-stories are non-canon in the series.

As for Hyne, we don't even know if he ever existed as he never actually shows up in VIII and is only briefly mentioned twice in the game in folklore, and once more in the Ultimania as folklore. So his very existence is questionable.

CoD and Necron largely get passes because they are self-contained villains within their mythos and are ultimately the game's major villain for better or for worse. Though Necron is more of a shout-out to CoD and Zeromus, CoD is shown to be a true force of the universe who is hinted to in the story of the Warriors of Darkness and their world being flooded by light. They are not like Zeromus or Neo-Exdeath who have stated origins with their games respected villains and thus extensions of them.

She's also the highest on this list because III's ending implies that she'll eventually win as well. Logically CoD could technically defeat any villain in the series so far regardless.

Sakaguchi-san cannot decide what is canonical and not to Final Fantasy. He is an incredibly brilliant person to be respected for what he did but that's it. Own the brand, own the rights. That is like saying there are no 700+ Pokémon because they were not made by Satoshi Tajiri or there is no Star Wars VII because it was not made by George Lucas or there is no Dragon Ball Super because half of it was not made by Akira Toriyama ... well, forget the last one. Dragon Ball has no real canonicity. But you get what I mean.

And if we really get technical, Neo-X-Death is not less than the Dark Cloud. It is the true form of X-Death, the soul fusion that possessed the tree but the force that controls this body at that time is the void itself that has absorbed X-Death.

I do not know why the question if Hyne exists plays an actual role for this. The stories about him exist and that is enough and that we know what the entirety of all sorceress power would mean, is also enough. The next questionable thing would be how much of a villain the Dark Cloud can even be called because just being a destructive force does not make someone a villain. The consequences are bad for us but that is not the same.

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth

Sakaguchi-san cannot decide what is canonical and not to Final Fantasy. He is an incredibly brilliant person to be respected for what he did but that's it. Own the brand, own the rights. That is like saying there are no 700+ Pokémon because they were not made by Satoshi Tajiri or there is no Star Wars VII because it was not made by George Lucas or there is no Dragon Ball Super because half of it was not made by Akira Toriyama ... well, forget the last one. Dragon Ball has no real canonicity. But you get what I mean.

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Yes, but it's also something he established when the series started and was held true until he left making it a foundational element that served to improve the series. His replacements have forgotten why he imposed that rule in the first place, which was to keep the series fresh and innovative and not be like Ubisoft. Honestly, FF has been going downhill since he left and also due to the merger. The expansion stuff has been pretty awful and the franchise has pretty much lost its rep as being the forerunner of the genre on an innovative level. Now they just have enough money and brand recognition to pull off good sales but its a shadow of it's former self. Sakaguchi established the artistic integrity of the franchise which has been lacking since Wada imposed franchising individual titles to make back revenue in the wake of the disaster that was Spirits Within.

I don't consider them canon, because of that rule, and because frankly all the sequel/prequel/spin-off trout is terrible and does nothing to really expand the series in a good way. Seriously people, stop buying them so SE will actually start putting effort back into their games.

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And if we really get technical, Neo-X-Death is not less than the Dark Cloud. It is the true form of X-Death, the soul fusion that possessed the tree but the force that controls this body at that time is the void itself that has absorbed X-Death.

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Except the rules of the thread is before there power-up. In other words, Ex-Death before he obtained the Void, let alone merging with it to become Neo-Exdeath. He was still wrecking the planet without it. If we were going by full powered versions, this list would be very different and Neo-ExDeath would be in the same league as Cloud of Darkness.

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I do not know why the question if Hyne exists plays an actual role for this. The stories about him exist and that is enough and that we know what the entirety of all sorceress power would mean, is also enough. The next questionable thing would be how much of a villain the Dark Cloud can even be called because just being a destructive force does not make someone a villain. The consequences are bad for us but that is not the same.

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He doesn't ever show up and and no reference is made in the actual story about him. You can actually bypass every reference the game makes of him. He's not important to the plot and since he never physically shows up, you can't say he's even real just because of some folk tales told by common folks. He's a myth like Zeus in VIII's world, not an active part like Etro, CoD, or the Warring Triad. It's not enough to have stories about him when there is no actual proof he ever existed or did anything. He's a myth and a clever reference to FFIII, that is all.

As for CoD being a villain, its true she's more of a force of nature but villainy is subjective anyway. I personally feel that Seymour's plan in FFX was not so terrible due to the game's cosmology and whose to say Emporer Mateus wouldn't be a good ruler? She's basically a Lovecraftian Cosmic Horror. The fact she's indifferent just makes her more intimidating for the player and the world of FFIII.

Without having played every FF, I'd give my vote to General Sephiroth of the Shinra Army. Before he started on his road to villainous godhood, he was revered as basically the greatest soldier of all time (as well as the greatest SOLDIER of all time, just to keep things confusing) with unrivalled, inhuman strength.

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

. . . and whose to say Emporer Mateus wouldn't be a good ruler?

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I'll say that. That man plays a violin, and you can't trust anyone who plays violin. :shifty:

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Originally Posted by Rez09

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Originally Posted by Wolf Kanno

. . . and whose to say Emporer Mateus wouldn't be a good ruler?

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I'll say that. That man plays a violin, and you can't trust anyone who plays violin. :shifty:

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I hear that. The kid playing the violin on the title screen of Castlevania 64 was bad news!

And did you ever play Violinist of Hamelin? He throws his girlfriend like a missile! D':

http://dorando.emuverse.com/images/h...in-hiki_02.png

Clear proof violinists cannot be trusted.

More on topic though, I was wondering something recently . . . how powerful is Ultima, The High Seraph supposed to be? It's been ages since I played FFT, and I get that it isn't one of the main numbered series and all, but I always felt rather confused by that enemy. I don't even remember if the game implies its strength other than by painting it as the leader of the Lucavi.

That reminds me that we have Dissidia specifically to resolve debates like this.

Out of the games ive played and remember (by the way you have all inspired me to replay ff3, 5 and possibly even 6 for the second time) id have to say sephiroth is the strongest in terms of will and trickery and yu yevon with his Sin armour is absolutely the most brutal physically. Interestingly yu yevon becomes the weakest by the final battle.