War in Iraq

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Originally posted by War Angel
I think it's a good thing the USA finally stood up for itself and defended what's right. Iraq was a threat, and had to be dealt with. I hope the USA remains true to the cause, and go after Saudi Arabia, Iran, Northern Korea (that place is.. scaring me) and many other nations which support terrorism.

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Hm. Let's look at the definition of terrorism: "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

Sounds an awful lot like what the US is doing now, doesn't it? And yeah, that's really what we need, that US attacking a lot more countries. A goddamned brilliant idea. More war! Die, evil terrorist peasants, die.

It's not the US's place to decide what's right and wrong for other countries. If the US is so right in what it's doing, why does everyone hate them so much? They need to be knocked down a couple notches. Badly.

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Originally posted by Emerald Aeris
It's not the US's place to decide what's right and wrong for other countries. If the US is so right in what it's doing, why does everyone hate them so much? They need to be knocked down a couple notches. Badly.

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I agree but I wouldn't say the USA needs to be knocked down a couple of notches. The leaders of the country just need to be more concerned with what others want and figure out a comprimise. As the super power and strongest force, I would compair them to management and the other countries as different unions. You have to negotiate with the unions...but unlike the work force you can't fire them all and find new people.

If the USA has a good leader then everyone will like them. If they have people who don't listen to anyone and do what they want no matter what...then people will hate them.

Its not so much a matter of being taken down a peg as it is getting a good leader in charge of the country.

Someone has to decide right and wrong. I'd rather it be us than mostly anyone else. I think the war was a good thing, and the reasons were fine by me.

Now if you only would solve all the OTHER dictators in the world... --Nait

Whoa, one at a time. We're getting there.

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Originally posted by edczxcvbnm
They will be fighting for my freedom as soon as you point out how saddam was a threat to my freedom. Since he isn't and wasn't at the time they are not fighting for my freedom.

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I'm not going to wait around till Ricin is unleashed upon the people in my country. If Saddam wants to play games, play with the inspectors, and make threats I'm sold. I'm more than comfortable dealing with any dictator that thinks about hurting my loved ones in any fashion.
So me and the rest of our hard working soldiers are going to fight and die to protect those we love, I guess you'll get your protection as a freebie. You're welcome, go back to your daily routine and everything will work itself out, spit at the gift people sacrifice their lives for, it's more than worth it to protect those I care about even if that means letting the unappreciative receive security while riding on the backs of the men and women who serve.

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Originally posted by Emerald Aeris They need to be knocked down a couple notches. Badly.

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Oh hell no, if someone said that to me in person I wouldn't be able to restrain myself. You need to fix yourself quick. There is no polite way to finish this.

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Originally posted by Talus
I'm not going to wait around till Ricin is unleashed upon the people in my country. If Saddam wants to play games, play with the inspectors, and make threats I'm sold. I'm more than comfortable dealing with any dictator that thinks about hurting my loved ones in any fashion.
So me and the rest of our hard working soldiers are going to fight and die to protect those we love, I guess you'll get your protection as a freebie. You're welcome, go back to your daily routine and everything will work itself out, spit at the gift people sacrifice their lives for, it's more than worth it to protect those I care about even if that means letting the unappreciative receive security while riding on the backs of the men and women who serve.

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What threats did Saddam make? Where are these threats?

I don't spit at people who sacrificed their lives to protect my way of living. Never would I do such a thing to those brave enough to do something such as that. I don't spit on you or any soilders over in Iraq right now for you are doing what you are told whether you believe in what is being done or not.

But because Iraq posed no threat, you are not protecting my freedom.

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Originally posted by Talus
Oh hell no, if someone said that to me in person I wouldn't be able to restrain myself. You need to fix yourself quick. You're the sore on our backs, the blisters on our feet, and the only one that needs to be taken down a notch is you, you spoiled pile of human garbage.

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Nice arguement and point of view on that one guy :erm:

The reason for war in Iraq was that the Bush administration thought that there were weapons of mass destruction there and that Hussein had a direct link to Al-Quada (and thus a link to 9-11). Since neither of these cases are true, the war was a waste. President Bush himself has admitted to his going to war on faulty intelligence.

Also, if we were truly concerned about world-wide safety, where were we when Hussein gassed the Kurds? We didn't view Hussein as a threat until he invaded Kuwait, threatening our oil supply.

"I'm not a bigot I'm just right": I'm almost certain this is the reasoning of pro-war supporters

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Originally posted by Pureghetto
"I'm not a bigot I'm just right": I'm almost certain this is the reasoning of pro-war supporters

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Explain yourself. A Bigot shows intolerance to those who differ.

Is SFC. Albuquerque a bigot for working with children in a sports facility in Kurdistan? How about Col. Ibraheim for working at the Al Thawra hospital? I guess Lt. Col. Wunderlich is a bigot for helping repair the city median in Baghdad.

I guess I never realized how blind most people are. Pureghetto, you know nothing about what's happening in Iraq. You think you have all the answers, to the point where you can throw words like Bigot around, but you're so wrong.

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Hm. Let's look at the definition of terrorism: "The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons."

Sounds an awful lot like what the US is doing now, doesn't it?

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Nope, not even one bit alike. Fighting is not terrorism - the key-word is 'unlawful'. The USA did not attack to further its own interests, or to achieve a certain vicious goal. The USA attacked because it was threatened and attacked, and had to stand up for itself, and fight.

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Die, evil terrorist

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Exactly. Unless, of-course, you wish to die yourself. There's no peacey-nicey-touchy way to deal with such threats. Unfortunately, only force works in these situations.

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If the US is so right in what it's doing, why does everyone hate them so much?

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Because weak people always despise stronger ones, who stand up for themselves. America and its allies are currently fighting the war everyone else decides to ignore.

"War is upon you, whether you're willing to risk it or not."

Call it biggotry, call it facism, call it whatever the fudge you want. But there are some things, and certain people, whom you cannot deal with using nice words. A time comes, when you have to raise your weapon of choice, and fight. A failure to do so would result in your destruction.

In my opinion, Hussein neede to be deposed. Too many innocent lives were lost because of his regime. However, I take great issue with how this was done, and the excuses that were used.

"But it's to liberate the oppressed peope of Iraq!"

Funny, after the first Gulf War, the Iraqi Kurds tried to overthrow Hussein, but they were counting on US support. America did nothing, so they were massacred. Why did America do nothing? Because Iraq was out of Kuwait, so Kuwaiti oil reserves and oil prices were safe. Nothing else mattered, least of all the people of Iraq.

Ten years later, there's a desperate urge to invade Iraq again. After plenty of ranting about 'terrorist links' and 'illegal weapons of mass diestruction', we're finally given the story that it's about saving the innocent Iraqi civilians. A noble cause, I agree... but how was this acheived? The first even in the war was the bombing of Husseins's Baghdad palaces. Any nitwit could tell you that the Hussein regime would not shelter in such obvious targets, yet they were destroyed first - undoubtedly killing hundreds of cooks, janitors, medics, and other innocent bystanders. The destuction expanded to consume the nation entire infrastructure, even demolishing water purification systems - not exactly going to cripple ol' Saddam, but didn't do a while lot of good for his people. Then there were the usual umpteen thousand bombs that were mis-directed and struck completely innocent targets.
The result: Saddam Hussein captured. Good. Thousands of innocent Iraqis killed, both accidentally and deliberately, by the coalition forces. Lives and livelihoods destroyed, entire cities reduced to a virtually pre-industrial state of existence. As with all wars, the innocent suffered more than anyone else. And now there are even some people who say that the people of Iraq should pay for the rebuilding of their country.

Hussein should've been eliminated by a single, well-planned strike - one bombing raid, based on reliable intelligence to pinpoint his exact location. Instead it was a free-for-all where no-one was safe, least of all those who the war was supposed to protect.[q=War Angel]The USA attacked because it was threatened and attacked[/q]By Iraq? A country that had been demolished once, and then kept in a state of near-perpetual poverty by internation sanctions? I think it's pretty clear by now that Iraq posed very little threat to the US. There's a chance it might have become a threat in the future, but by that same reasoning the US could 'justify' attacking every country in the world and killing its leaders.

Iraq wasn't a threat. They were not a threat to the surrounding countries, and they certainly were not a threat to us. The information used was falsified, they've known this from the start.

Those in power care nothing for the welfare of the Iraqi people. They care nothing for the welfare of the people who die every day under malicious dictators who WE put into power. The only thing any American official cares for, it seems, is their own wealth and power. Far be it from me to suggest that all politicians are like this, but many of them are. Saddam had to go, yes. Would we have been so interested in Saddam if he didn't have all that oil lying around in his country, or perhaps for some other reason yet unknown? Of course not. We are America. We cannot see past our own borders.

The things I have been hearing these last few days have sickened me to the core.

I have nothing really thought-provoking to add to this thread other than what has already been said. Except for this little quote I memorized a while back. The philosopher Jon Stewart Mills said this in a speech many, many years ago:

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself."

And, ya know, I just remembered another little quote I memorized some time ago. I believe it was General H. Norman Schwarzkopf who said, after the Gulf War:

"A professional soldier understands that war means killing people, war means maiming people, war means families left without fathers and mothers. Alll you have to do is hold your first dying soldier in your arms, and have that terribly futile feeling that his life is flowing out and you can't do anything about it. Then you understand the horror of war. Any soldier worth his salt should be anti war. And still there are things worth fighting for."

Just some food for thought.

The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons

Not a bit a like? So the US didn't break a UN regulation in order to attack Iraq? It also says threatened use of force. So the US isn't threatening to use force over there? They aren't trying to intimidate, or coerce the Iraqi government (and others) through violent means? This wasn't a retaliation attack. The US was looking for WMDs (which it never even had sufficient proof of).

There's no "peacey-nicey-touchy" way? Like say, a trial? We liberal hippie peace nuts ask too much.

War is only upon us because the US wouldn't wait for the UN's decision of whether or not force was necessary. The whole point of the UN is to prevent nations from just doing whatever the hell they want. The US breaks UN regulations to attack Iraq because they broke UN regulations. Really nice.

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Originally posted by Emerald Aeris
There's no "peacey-nicey-touchy" way? Like say, a trial? We liberal hippie peace nuts ask too much.

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OK, say you're a dictator of a third world country who brutally oppresses the people. If you got a letter from the UN, asking you nicely to "please come visit us so we can put you on trial, strip you of power and imprison you for war crimes. We'd really appreciate it."

Somehow, I highly doubt you'd accept the offer.

Like it's been said countless times before, evil will only triumph when good men do nothing.

By the way, that quote is most often used in reference to the Rwanda genocides in the early 90's. In case you don't know what I'm talking about, that's when nearly two and a half million people - mostly Tutsis - were slaughtered. Instead of providing assistance, most other nations turned their heads, and even the UN decided to pack up and high-tail it out of central Africa because it was too dangerous. A lot of people wanted to stop the mass murders, but nobody did. Hence, the triumph of evil.

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Like it's been said countless times before, evil will only triumph when good men do nothing.

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Call me cynical but I do not believe that the Iraq invasion was at all benevolent in nature. Why don't we invade North Korea? How about one of the many African countries who suffer under oppressive dictators? China? Cuba? Why JUST Iraq? Why is Iraq so important in the first place?

I see many questions and few answers in this war.