I've come to believe that that final battle with Sephiroth was Cloud's final step into finally getting Sephiroth out of his head. I guess that explains the darkness and why Cloud's alone during that "battle".
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I've come to believe that that final battle with Sephiroth was Cloud's final step into finally getting Sephiroth out of his head. I guess that explains the darkness and why Cloud's alone during that "battle".
That's a popular interpretation of that scene... that Cloud's ousting the last remnants of Jenova's and Sephiroth's lingering evil influence from himself. That also explains why in one moment, he's surrounded by Lifestream and reaching toward a hand - Aeris'? - and in the next moment, he's up in the crumbling cave, with Tifa reaching out to him, kind of like he's been jolted back to reality.Quote:
Originally posted by SomethingBig
I've come to believe that that final battle with Sephiroth was Cloud's final step into finally getting Sephiroth out of his head. I guess that explains the darkness and why Cloud's alone during that "battle".
I'm inclined to agree with the final battle being in terms of consciousness - because when Cloud and Tifa are left on the screen and Cloud covers his head and starts thrashing around, you see him in double and one of the Clouds flies away to fight Sephiroth. So all the time the real Cloud was there while he was imagining destroying Sephiroth. The thing is, I don't think he imagined destroying Sephiroth so much as destroying Sephiroth's consciousness. Cloud felt his prescence in the surrounding Lifestream, and I think that final battle was to finally completely destroy his spirit such that Sephiroth could no longer exist as a whole person, and would finally be reduced to Spirit Energy. Hope that makes sense.
In the flashback when Cloud throws Sephiroth over the bridge, I always thought Sephiroth pierced his armor but missed his flesh (sorta like stabbing at Cloud's armpit), and then Cloud grabbed the sword and chucked him over the bridge. But impaling the shoulder suffices as well.
Interesting to wonder whether Cloud was rejected or never applied. Just another example of the open-ended genius of this story...
Anyways, to sum up...
Cloud destroys Sephiroth's spirit (equivalent to Sepiroth himself after Jenova and Safer are destroyed) in the final battle. On a side note, Omnislashing him to pieces is freaking cool.
Hi Neel.
I remeber posting something here that was something else by some guy who got it from an author and was an in depth look into the game. but the forums got cleared out and my computer seems to get a new harddrive every few months these days so I cant find it. But towards the end it says that he thinks that sephiroth is a puppet, he doesn't want to destroy the world but is being controled by jenova (end of disk 1 "sephiroth: because you are..... Jenova: ... puppet) why would that be the only line by jenova in the game? why is it finishing his sentances. So jenova is killed when you fight the 1 winged angle (all of these mutations are forms of jenova, notice a similarity tenticals, giant size, ability to destroy the world) When you finaly kill jenova all that is left is the sephiroth, without jenova he is just as weak as the next guy. Driven insane by having jenova inside him he attacks cloud sure of his own success. But gets his ass kicked (notice the suprise on his face when you kill him). Also I think holy begins to work after you defeat the safer sephiroth, even though sephiroth is still alive. He is not the threat, he's just another guy.
:: bangs head :: i swear, no one listens to me. In another topic, i posted the following
Quote:
You know,your gana have to take a guess.Me,being a big Sephiroth fan despite Aeris being killed by (supposibly) him,have an idea.
Yes,i think the person who killed Aeris was a clone.A very good,perhaps the only succesful, Sephiroth Clone.You know how Cloud was living Zacks memories?Well,think of this Clone(looking exactly like Sephiroth) living Sephiroths memories.
I think this was Jenovas plan.Hojo was making Sephiroth Clones,people that could hold his strength and power,but he never gave them Sephiroths thoughts.Jenova must have.Jenova,being a *thing* we know little about,could have known everything there was to know about Sephiroth,seeing how her Cells were in him.Perhaps she collected his thoughts and memories.She then gave them to this clone.
The clone killed Aeris.The clone was being controlled by Jenova.The line "You are a Puppet" was directed twords Cloud, to make him mentaly unstable,but...I think it was actually ment to fit Sephiroths clone.The clone was Jenovas toy,and a toy ment to be played with by the Shinra.That is the reson Hojo made the clones.
So,basicly,Hojo made a clone.Jenova gave the clone Sephiroths memories and feelings and life(basicly),and the Clone in return did her bidding, knowing nothing of her playing with him like a puppet.
now,i hope somone give you their thoughts...-.-;;; i think it'd be nice to hear their ideas to.
[q="Kishi!"]
Hi Neel.
[/q]
:love:
from game faq auther Sophie Cheshire
5 years ago
- Reports of monsters disrupting life for the workers at the Mt. Nibel Mako
reactor results in Sephiroth, Zack and Cloud being sent to Nibelheim to
investigate. On reaching Nibelheim Cloud keeps his identity hidden from Tifa
and the other townspeople. He cannot bear to be seen as just an "ordinary"
solider.
Tifa takes the party to the Mako reactor. Tifa and Cloud stay outside. Inside,
Sephiroth discovers Jenova's body and sees all the mutated "failed" experiments
of Hojo's. He begins to realise his origins may be similar and becomes upset.
Zack is disbelieving at first, but when one of the mutated humans falls out of
a pod he also begins to be concerned. The party return to Nibelheim Mansion.
Sephiroth finds all the notes of Jenova Project in the basement of the Mansion.
He is aware of Professor Gasts initialisation of the project but has not been
told how Gast died or Hojo's full involvement in his creation. Later in the
night Zack goes to speak to Sephiroth and finds Sephiroth a changed man.
Sephiroth has discovered Gasts notes he made at Icicle Lodge about the
Ancients. He now believes he is descended from the Ancients and regards normal
humans as traitors who abandoned the Cetra to a terrible disaster. However he
does not seem to accept Jenova is the cause of that disaster. He rants and
raves at Zack before leaving quickly to see Jenova whom he refers to as
"Mother".
Zack follows him outside and sees the whole village in flames. Many people are
dead or dying, a Shinra Soldier (Cloud) tends to his dying mother. Sephiroth
heads for the reactor with several townsfolk in hot pursuit. Tifa and Zack
chase after him, Cloud following behind.
At the reactor Tifa discovers her father's body. Sephiroth has killed him. As
Sephiroth moves towards the Pod with Jenova in it, Zack tries to attack him but
is batted away. Tifa picks up Sephiroth's discarded sword and attacks him, but
he takes the sword back and cuts her down. Cloud arrives to witness this and
he tenderly moves Tifa into a more comfortable position before confronting
Sephiroth.
Sephiroth opens the pod and tries to free Jenova. As Cloud approaches
Sephiroth tells Jenova he has come to reclaim the Planet for her. Cloud stabs
Sephiroth then returns to tend to Tifa. Injured, Sephiroth can only take
Jenova's head with him, he leaves the pod room, walking past Cloud. Cloud
follows him onto the bridge above the Life stream running far below at the
bottom of the reactor. Sephiroth stabs Cloud though the chest, but Cloud keeps
a hold of the sword and uses it to flip Sephiroth and Jenova's head into the
bottom of the Mako reactor. Cloud then passes out.
- In the immediate aftermath, Zangan (Tifa's tutor) arrives at the reactor and
takes the wounded Tifa to Midgar. Here she sets up a bar called "Seventh
Heaven" in the sector 7 slums when she has recovered.
- Cloud, Zack and the surviving residents of Nibelheim are gathered up and used
by Hojo to create clones of Sephiroth now they believe the original is dead.
- Far from dead, Sephiroth washes through the Life stream until he ends up at
the Great North Cave. Having assimilated the knowledge of the Ancients while
in there he begins to formulate a plan to turn himself into a God. This
involves summoning a Meteor to cause a big enough wound on the planets surface
to make the Life stream rush to one place, where he can absorb it all. Over
the next 5 years he experiments with controlling the Sephiroth clones remotely
and projecting himself psychically. His physical body however remains in the
Great North Cave for the duration of the game.
- Shinra cover up the incident at Nibelheim and repopulate the town with
Shinra staff. Experiments carry on at the Mansion, but Jenova is moved to
Shinra Headquarters (now minus her head), for safekeeping. After the cloning
project proves to be a failure, Hojo moves back to Midgar permanently and
carries on research there. At some point he captures Nanaki for a series of
unknown tests and names him Red XIII.
any questions ?
My only major issue with that version of events is this one:
It seems somewhat odd, that immediately after losing his mind and therefore giving a prime opportunity for someone to take control of him, he just happens to develop exactly the same desires and abilities possessed by Jenova.Quote:
- Far from dead, Sephiroth washes through the Life stream until he ends up at the Great North Cave. Having assimilated the knowledge of the Ancients while
in there he begins to formulate a plan to turn himself into a God. This
involves summoning a Meteor to cause a big enough wound on the planets surface
to make the Life stream rush to one place, where he can absorb it all. Over
the next 5 years he experiments with controlling the Sephiroth clones remotely
and projecting himself psychically. His physical body however remains in the
Great North Cave for the duration of the game.
iv alwayz wondered y hojo gave nanaki the no. 13, it is wel known that he numbered al his clones, but y nanaki, maybe its jus his thing. . . . . . . .
The presence of Jenova cells in SOLDIER members and clones caused them to be affected by Jenova's Reunion instinct; her instinctual drives and motivations probably rubbed off on Sephiroth in much the same way, just to a larger extent. There's no question that he was influenced.Quote:
Originally posted by PhoenixAsh
My only major issue with that version of events is this one:
It seems somewhat odd, that immediately after losing his mind and therefore giving a prime opportunity for someone to take control of him, he just happens to develop exactly the same desires and abilities possessed by Jenova.
There's also no question that it's not the actual Sephiroth's body the team pursues through the game, but I think that's pretty clear to all. However, plenty of evidence suggests that it's not simply Jenova's carcass in disguise. At the beginning of the journey, "Sephiroth" still believed that he was a Cetra, the "rightful heir to the Planet", and it wasn't until roughly the Temple of the Ancients when he began to declare that he and Jenova weren't Cetra, but rather something more dangerous. Jenova would've known all along she wasn't a Cetra, and wouldn't have bothered with the pretence of ignorance.[q=Zero Bahamut]iv alwayz wondered y hojo gave nanaki the no. 13, it is wel known that he numbered al his clones, but y nanaki, maybe its jus his thing. . . . . . . .[/q]Hojo numbered all of his specimens, just a way of cataloguing them. Also, it adds a bit of tension to the game when Nanaki realises that maybe he, too, could've been a victim of the same experiments that destroyed the minds of the clones.
Hmm, I can't remember the wording "Sephiroth" uses prior to the Temple of the Ancients, but if he definitely claims to be a Cetra then it could be purely part of the act. They did need Cloud and Co. to follow them after all. I seem to remember a lot of the drive to go to the Temple coming from Aeris wanting to know about her past, not the black materia, though I do need to play it through again to be sure.
If the team had believed earnestly that Sephiroth was a Cetra, then there'd be no problems - they wouldn't bother pursuing him since their goals coincided. It wouldn't make a whole lot of sense to go through this pretence... look at it this way:
1: Party believes Sephiroth is a Cetra - they follow, to find out his evil plans and so Aeris can learn about herself.
2: Party believes that Sephiroth's power comes from an evil, infectious alien that wants to destroy everything - they follow, to find out his evil plans and stop them.
Same result either way.
The party didn't believe Jenova was Cetra. However, Sephiroth did.
Also, one thing you people haven't mentioned: it could be a combination of theories. For example, what if the Sephiroth you chase throughout the majority of disc 1 is actually Jenova, though the Sephiroth you meet in Temple of the Ancients(and briefly in City of the Ancients; those brief unsubstantial Sephiroths) are Sephiroth's "projected image?"
Or maybe I'm just a rambling idiot. But it seems to me that since there's some events which the Jenova theory can't explain, and others that the "projected image" theory can't explain, why not combine the two?
I know, but the possibility was present in Aeris' mind, at least at first. "Sephiroth and I... do we have the same blood?"Quote:
Originally posted by Raistlin
The party didn't believe Jenova was Cetra. However, Sephiroth did.
Good point. There's no single conclusive answer to everything, which is probably why this's still being debated after so many years. I've long held that Sephiroth used his mind to interact and communicate with Jenova's body, disguising it in his form so he could be *free* again, and out there working his evil. In that sense, it's a projected image, but still dependent on Jenova's body to give it useful substance. This would explain why Sephiroth turns back into his own image after being disguised as Tifa to deceive Barret or Nanaki at the Whirlwind Maze.Quote:
Also, one thing you people haven't mentioned: it could be a combination of theories. For example, what if the Sephiroth you chase throughout the majority of disc 1 is actually Jenova, though the Sephiroth you meet in Temple of the Ancients(and briefly in City of the Ancients; those brief unsubstantial Sephiroths) are Sephiroth's "projected image?"
Or maybe I'm just a rambling idiot. But it seems to me that since there's some events which the Jenova theory can't explain, and others that the "projected image" theory can't explain, why not combine the two?