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Equality takes a long time to establish, it took the western world long enough and we're still not completely there yet. When you grow up in a culture that condones or ignores wife-beatings, chances are you're probably going to end up a wife-beater yourself. Hopefully this woman standing up and going public will be a step in the right direction and help to break the cycle.
yes because all arab women are obviously all beaten up by their oppressive, male counterparts. :rolleyes2
Probably not, but when they are, it's still a normal thing. So, they can't complain or do anything about, but to take it like a... well, woman.Quote:
yes because all arab women are obviously all beaten up by their oppressive, male counterparts.
this debate came up in colledge when a british born muslim female studant started defending the ways of her original nationality. i didnt try to argue her or brainwash her...simply point out the STUPID logic of it....but she wouldnt see it because she didnt want to...i suppose it helped that she was in a country that doesnt condone those things. ive heard muslims etc talk about how, as children, all the women in the house were made to eat off the floor and only the men were aloud to sit at the table. it wasnt written anywhere in any rules or religous books that this should be done.....it was simply "tradition" and suppresstion, but since they couldnt read and werent tought how to untill they fled.....they never knew untill recently.
but then again in ancient celtic socity over here in britian and ireland it was often the females who ruled over the tribes. They were more intelligant, better cummnicators and in fact more viloent and deadly. the celtic men would have a fight and forgive the next day, but teh celtic women went to WAR. i dont mean knifes and skullduggery, im talking Boudica, swords and spear and chariots. this is probably why the celts were such amazing artists in gold. recently the national museum welcomed some chinese specilits over and they said that teh celts were more adcanced in their art and metal works than the chinese etc.
women are the more powerful sex in many ways....but they have to use that power. many simply dont want to and exist in denile.
"this debate came up in colledge when a british born muslim female studant started defending the ways of her original nationality. i didnt try to argue her or brainwash her...simply point out the STUPID logic of it....but she wouldnt see it because she didn’t want to...i suppose it helped that she was in a country that doesnt condone those things."
Perhaps she would have a hard time pointing out the horrors of the Christian world e.g. Abortion and invading other countries for economic gains.
Many Muslim women appreciate their tradition as it facilitates a path to salvation, provided they follow the strict rules and obey their husbands. I have seen women in the west who stay with the most violent men because they hold to their beliefs. We say that we are the progressive and enlightened, but we are looking in from an undisciplined structure...I assume that we are all aware or have experienced grief but is anyone here familiar with horror. I am not so I won't judge them.
“Equality takes a long time to establish, it took the western world long enough and we're still not completely there yet. When you grow up in a culture that condones or ignores wife-beatings, chances are you're probably going to end up a wife-beater yourself. Hopefully this woman standing up and going public will be a step in the right direction and help to break the cycle.”
Equality still doesn’t mean happiness, which is what most women complain about today. When we look at women in the past they were intelligent, and they were happy. My grandmother lived a long life; she was an award winning gardener and won in porcelain doll exhibitions. Today women have the choice to do as they please, they have exceeded the men in every way – and left the men behind. In doing so many women have woken to the fact that they have missed the opportunity to have children as they are either to old (risk of down syndrome increases) or can’t find a personal Brad Pitt. Equality is not as its title suggests - as women have taken on the roles above and beyond the capacity of one individual while men are still back in the 1950’s. Women have too many pressures placed on them by family, society and not to mention men.
I know a girl who grew up in Iran. It's pretty normal. It's not seen as oppressive. Sure, it doesn't happen to everyone. Just like not everyone goes to high school in America. Just a ridiculously large portion.Quote:
Originally Posted by /\/I\/\
we arent a christian world anymore......at least no more than we are jewish, islamic, pagan. Infact since paganism and earth magic was the original belif system over here in teh UK and Ireland (scotland and wales) and it still has a strong following today.....you could say that the united kingdom is still paganistic and not christian based since that belif simply drifted here with the tides of invation. But i agree that abortion and teh ideal of world domination are not good, but then neither is teh fact that most islamic follows ignor their own teachings and start killing other people when it says clearly not to.
yeah ive been only too familuar with horror, i grew up in one of the roughest parts of the northeast where old women froze to deaths in their homes while young teenagers froze to death on teh streets...i could go on further but people start going nuts.
actually teh western world has had equality since it's origins. history is wrote by teh victors and it's currently belived that the demsel in distress never existed but that women owned and ran their own kingdoms etc. but when we reached the victorian era they created the "myth" of the weaker female and damsel in distress. it's like the tide, these things come and these things go.
[q=Snowman]most islamic follows ignor their own teachings and start killing other people when it says clearly not to.[/q]What?
"Most" Muslims kill people? You might want to watch the ol' "sweeping generalisations" there. The overwhelming majority of Muslims don't kill people. What you just said would be like saying "Oh, those Irish Catholics, always murdering everyone else, the lot of 'em". Simply untrue, and quite offensive to certain people. Please take care.
we arent a christian world anymore...... --Snowman
Er, the world never was Christian. Europe was, I guess, but Europe isn't the whole world. Eastern Asia has never been predominately Christian that I know of, for example.
Unne - i was reffering to Besimudo's post where he refferd to a christian world....while i agree that the Entire world has never been christian....that isnt what the christians think, nor is it the belif of most power hungry faiths. of course earth magic etc doesnt force a belif on anyone.
I admit Big D when it comes to islam, muslims etc, im iggnorant, and i dont really care what differnces and sects and names they all use the same way i dont care for teh differnces between catholics and christians...it's all about one person interpreting something one way or teh other instead of ACTUALLY reading what they are preaching. never the less when a lecturer made a documentry travelling to these far off lands and meeting all these differnt faiths....they were all obssesd with murder and revenge. one lot (while in their colledge), while their teachings and faith decreed you shouldnt kill women, children, nor cut down tree's..they simply brushed it off and said we have no choice but to kill and do so by suicide because we have no guns. they looked like normal poeple...and yet they were happy to murder. your right it is wrong to generalise....but thats the state and appearance of ALL OF THEM. it's not fair but thats how it is.
Nope. There are, what... half a billion Muslims in the world? I'm not sure, but there are lots anyway. The vast majority, including those I've known, aren't murderous fanatics. Sure, the extremists can be classified as such, but the same goes for extremists in any religion. It's the visible exception, rather than the unobserved rule. The media only notices the ones who stand out.Quote:
but thats the state and appearance of ALL OF THEM.
Besimudo's "Christian world", I think, refers to the dominant religions and historical influences in "our world", i.e. our countries and cultures. Not the world as a whole. A hundred or so years ago, most of our countries were largely Christian; this is reflected in state institutions and whatnot that still exist today.
1.7, actually, and growing daily. Now isn't that a happy thought. :)Quote:
There are, what... half a billion Muslims in the world?
Islam poses a serious threat now, as it is going through the same phase religions go through - it has gained strength, and is now moving for conquest.
Let me elaborate a bit, on theses 'stages'...
A religion is born. It starts off with a (usually) violent boom, and spreads to some people and territory. Then, after a while, after it has refined itself, and gained power and followers, it goes off to prove itself. This takes about a millenia, usually. Judaism formed around 4,200 years ago... and 3,200 years ago, they made war upon the people that lived in Ken'an, today's Israel, and captured that piece of land.
300 years after Jesus' death, Christianity suddenly became the religion of the Roman empire. All other faiths were persecuted. In 1095 - the first crusade was waged against the Muslims, who captured Christian holy sites.
In 632 and in the years following, Islam has spread like fire through the Arabian peninsula, and the surrounding areas. The famous 'Convert or Die' policy has come to be, and soon, all the local tribes were either vanquished, or Muslim. Today, after some 1,300 years, Islam reigns over most of the Third World (Africa, the Middle East, Asia), and is going through the same phase Judaism went through 3,200 years ago, and Christianity 1,000 years ago - the stage of conquet, of testing their self-worth, their convictions, and their strength. The 'Conver or Die' approach has been revived.
"Besimudo's "Christian world", I think, refers to the dominant religions and historical influences in "our world", i.e. our countries and cultures. Not the world as a whole. A hundred or so years ago, most of our countries were largely Christian; this is reflected in state institutions and whatnot that still exist today."
Thank-you, I was speaking of the Christian world as in Europe and western culture.
Christianity has about 2 billion followers. My source states 1.3 billion for Islam! where did you find 1.7?
"we arent a christian world anymore......at least no more than we are jewish, islamic, pagan. Infact since paganism and earth magic was the original belif system over here in teh UK and Ireland (scotland and wales) and it still has a strong following today....."
These pagans are hardly legitimate as such traditions were transmitted via bardic song, which have been lost with the ages. Put simply, the traditions are dead. Thor, Zeus or the fianna cycle, take your pick, have little relevance in the west as far as religion and spiritual worship are concerned. Snorri Sturluson, wrote the eddas (main source of pagan Norse myth) centuries after Christianity was adopted in Iceland. Via Bardic tradition, as past on through his family, Snorri wrote the eddas - but Sturlusons account is very "Christianised"! I ask you how a pagan in todays world might conduct his rite to Thor? Or how he may legitimately claim to be of the Norse, Celtic or Greek pagan traditions.
In the end it may be acceptable or even cool to walk in the footsteps of Athena or pay homage to Macool the Celtic hero, but in reality nobody can trace the worship as an unbroken line. I have heard claims of Swedes adopting the old ways of paganism - Thor and all! But don’t hold your breath for the berserkers or long boat craftsmen, as these crucial features of the tradition are but memories of a great pagan heritage that faded with the Vikings.
Big D....when i said thats the appearance of all of them, i meant to the general public. while i can appriciate that it isnt teh teachings or belif systems that make you a nutty murderer...it's whats inside that does....most people simply dont care, and they hear that your "" and they make the assuption that your a card carrying suicide bomber. it's the same for those of us into animal rights.
youve gotta remeber WarAngel.....it's not the faiths that kill or cause trouble...it's the people who do what they wish and use their name. anyone with common sense knows you can look under a stone and find your god, but the christians will have you belive you should donate all your money to repair their church roof.
"Thank-you, I was speaking of the Christian world as in Europe and western culture" there you go again Besimudo......grouping all us europeans in as bibal bashers. because a certain faith was more viloent than others and became commercially enticing, that doesnt mena we are all of that faith.what about the norse who for a long time and still do belive in teh norse gods, these themselves stemmed from the ancient slavic mythologies and gods.
Also it's quite rude of you to say that - "These pagans are hardly legitimate" when england has NEVER abandoned that faith and belif which is why thousands still worship it today. i can say teh same about the jokers who go with their grannys to churches or the nutty people who use their religions to kill as we are seeing in far off lands. theres so many people who follow paganism and earth magic around here in the north east you carnt turn your back for them. try visting www.Darkforum.com. manchester and newcastle have an astounding amount of norse followers. yes the celts and gauls did carry many stories etc by song, thats how their civilisation did it....it's perhaps more correct than the cribbles by monks as many times it's shown where they were bribed and coerced into fiddling with the details of history. theres a saying "history isnt true, it's only ever written by the winners".
If one man belives in a certain religion or fiath, in the greek gods and goddess or the babylonian, then it isnt dead. national funding, great churches and regular converts does not define a faith. if you like check out the pagan federation at pagan dawn. but im not a pagan so im not pushing you
"Also it's quite rude of you to say that - "These pagans are hardly legitimate" when england has NEVER abandoned that faith and belif which is why thousands still worship it today. i can say thesame about the jokers who go with their grannys to churches or the nutty people who use their religions to kill as we are seeing in far off lands."
Sorry, but the last speaker of the Manx language died in 1973, and Gaelic barely remains in tact...without the songs of delivery.
The fact that GRANNY can take the kids to church is what counts... I don't see any old witches taking their kids along to the 'Easter tree sacrifice'... As opposed to this I see young people attempting to conduct a mystical experience, via paganism, that asserts itself on some spiritual level but yields no significant or lasting insights. I believe that many young scholars start out investigating Paganism, and this is good as it certainly provides important insights into Christianity (the living tradition). However, one must concede that the delivery, prayer and traditions are gone and only their structures remain e.g. Stonehenge, the monoliths, the Viking remains and in other parts of the world...the Moai at Easter Islands.
"Also it's quite rude of you to say that - "These pagans are hardly legitimate" when england has NEVER abandoned that faith and belifwhich is why thousands still worship it today."
No, thousands have became obsessed with the pagan traditions, and then believed they could resurrect it...spells and all. None of this worship has an unbroken line from its prophets to the current form. Imagine if the Christian line was broken then hundreds of years latter scholars attempted to resurrect the religion...it would be quite ludicrous! Perhaps you should read up on the emergence of Christianity in Britain and the disappearance of the Druidic class. In 432 A.D. St. Patrick brought a new era of religion to Ireland that eventually grew to incorporate elements of the old and new such as the Celtic crosses.