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It says in the game (By Doc Odine I think), Ultimacia lives far into the future, so far it is not possible for any of us to exist then. Unless Rinoa is blessed with eternal life, I doubt its her.
Also Im not convinced she lost all her memory, and is trying to kill her supposed self (a.k.a Rinoa.)
We talked an an R=U thread some time ago about the fact that Ulty's ultimate goal wasn't really to kill Rinoa or Squall or anyone, but to achieve time compression. In order to achieve this, everyone had to die as a byproduct. That's not to say she felt bad about everyone dying (I doubt she did), but nevertheless that was not her immediate intent.
Why time compression? Because she was caught in this timeloop, and the only way for her to break out of it is to achieve time compression. She's an anomaly that can't easily exist in the normal world. Why else would she be the only one able to exist in a time compressed world? It's not because she's a sorceress, time compression would have killed Rinoa too. It's because there's something else paradoxically screwed up about her.
Rinoa, however, has NO problem existing where and when she does, and could not survive time compression. Therefore, she cannot be Ultimecia.
That's my theory.
However, I think the game lacks enough hard evidence to proove the point either way, so unless more is added to the story by Square we will all argue until we're blue in the face. :)
I know its not a good idea to judge this sort of thing by looks but have you seen how much Rinoa actually looks like Ultimecia? Heaps! I swear shes the same person with different coloured hair, face paint and contacts.
Ultys more likely to be Rinoa than any of the other main characters.
This is probably the law student in me talking, for which I wholly apologize, but....
It seems to me that the burden of proof here rests on the R=U crowd. Its not alluded to in the game in any meaningful way, unless you are looking for that answer and working backwards to support it.
Personally, I agree with the premise that sorceresses are not immortal, and that Ultimeca is very far into the future. Remember Odine's description of the machine that allowed her to transfer her conciousness.
Hmm... the problem is that the differenc ebetween RL and the court is that everything in FFVIII IS put in for a reason. In a RL court, I wouldn't dream of finding Rinia 'guilty' for being Ulti in the future because she said, for example 'wouldn't it be nice if time stopped' once. Heck, everybody could have said that. But the fact that SS CHOSE to put those words in her mouth, in a game where stopping time is such an important thing, does tell us a bit about what the SS people intended, IMHO. Together with the other things, that have been discussed plenty of times.
I wouldn't actually compare it to a RL court, but its more of something like disgreeing with "I've come up with this theory, which I will assume to be right unless you prove me wrong.", as opposed to the other way around. (Note "I" in that sentence is not directed at anyone in particular). It just rubs me the wrong way, but that is probably because I had stats classes prior to law classes, both of which tend to frown upon that kind of premise. Hard to undo 4+ years of physchological training.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rand Al'Tor
IMO I think that whatever your predeturmined assumption is on wheater or not R=U, you are going to find proof to support your theory, Making truth to such facts will only weigh on those supporting your facts, either way. I Just finished Social Psychology and I remember something to that nature, i figured I would share that with you. I really cant remember what that process was, But i think it was Cognitive Dissanance or somthing.
Ok i took the liberty of finding a pic of Rinoa and a pic of Ultimecia just to back up what i said earlier. I made sure they were looking the same way (I flipped Ulty back to front :D ) Look at the shapes of the eyes, nose and chin, mouth size etc.....apart from the markings and the hair they do look alike.
Even if it dosnt add up or make sense I think that Square intended Ultimecia to be Rinoa.
OMG! You know what else? if you pull Riona's hair back, she looks sort of like Edea! Riona = Edea!
Just kidding of course. I do see what you are saying about the resemblence, and I thought about saying something about the eyes being slightly different, but it would end up in a circular conversation, so why bother?
There is just simply too little proof for me to give R=U any weight. And too much evidence against it, not the least of which being the "far in the future" status of Ultimeca, her manner of speaking, etc.... we've been all over it before, both ways.
Actually, Cid is Edea's knight. She says so if you talk to her in disk 3 after rescuing Rinoa.Quote:
Additionally, we don't know that a Soceresses Knight is all that common. For all we know, Seifer and Squall could be the only Soceress's Knights to ever exist.
wow Slade they do look kinda the same...but any way i also disagree with the R=U theory for most of the reasons stated here allready.
The point about grievr i spose, as a few people have said, is that Ulty use him against Squall and co becuse griever is a representation of Squall and his power (gunblade use, lionheat etc) so she's trying to use his power against him.
but yea all in all R=U=pants just my opinion
sorry but u guys r nuts! that pic is bad for a comparrison.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slade
every1 look closely. ulti has a normal nose with the nostrils pulling back the nose where as rinoa has just a upside down triangle for the bottom of her nose.
the lips are different, maybe you cant see because ulti is streched but its dif. and so on.
terrible comparrison
Well if you look closer you will see that Rinoa is actually slightly looking down so of course her nose is a tiny bit different. As for the mouth well thats pretty obvious......Ultimecia is smiling and Rinoa's mouth is just blah. :D
The picture comparison doesn't really prove anything except the fact Square were running low on character frameworks so they used a generic model for all the characters. I believe the R=U theory to some extent, but there is so much 'evidence' on either side I'm really not too sure. It would be a nice touch if it were true, but I don't think it was put there intentionally by Square, it's merely something gamers have assumed from game script.
hey i didn't say it was a R=U prover, i just sed that they looked more simialr than i thouhgtQuote:
Originally Posted by Coda