So..you guys are saying someone dreamt of FFX? And that someone just had an ordinary sleep?
I thought Tidus was telling the story or his flashbacks and then you play his story.
"Listen to my story--This may be our last chance...)
Sorry if I complicate too much
First I have to say: BEST TOPIC EVER!
The way I see it, (SPOILER)Tidus, his mom and Jecht are dreams of the Fayth. The dreams are based on real people that existed in Zanarkand a thousand years ago. Tidus is based on FFX-2's Shuyin for instance, to me that makes sense. That explains why they look alike and all. But that Dresssphere stuff really sucks I think.
The one thing I don't fully understand is Sin, how can Sin transport people ( Unsent and Dreams of the Fayth for that matter ) through dream worlds and regular worlds? Is Sin some sort of portal? Also, what is the connection between Sin and Yu Yevon? I didn't quite get that.
Sorry if half of the post is off-topic, answer my questions if you feel like it. :D
Sorry that this topic is really old, but I thought I'd expound on the last question here...
not going to mark spoilers, because they're already in teh topic:)
Aite, when you go back to Bevelle towards the end of the game (none of the temples will let you back in before you do this, so you sort of have to if you missed any and want anima) you run into all those dead people, right? And have a nice chat with Bahamut's fayth.
(at least I think it is him. it could be any number of people that tell you this, like mika or someone)
whoever it is will tell you-- Yevon was the first summoner, and iirc, he wanted to become invincible, so he created an armor out of the souls of living people. He called the armor Sin, and the souls were the fayth in spira. This is why when you go through Mount Gagazet around the time that tidus faints and sees himself back in Zanarkand, Yuna tells you all that there's being a summoning taken place. (really bad verb tense there, haha) This is probably a mass embedding-into-rock that Yevon did way back when (I'm guessing he lived in Zanarkand, and possibly did a pied piper voyage up into the mountains so no one would find him before he finished encasing them into stone. (as to how he did that, I have no clue)) Anyways, the other summoners through the ages figured out that the only hope they had of breaking the unbreakable armor (sin) was to get someone that they really bonded with (yunalesca and lord zaon, braska and jecht, would-have-been dona and barthello) to willingly place themselves into the stone, and I'm guessing because it was done willingly, that it would override the unwilling sacrifice on the part of the first Sin armor. (ie, gagzet, perhaps?)
Of course, Yevon doesn't die when Sin dies, because he isn't a part of Sin. It's like how you have mothers that die right before their children are born and the kids can still be alive sometimes.
So in summary: Yevon=bad guy that wants power. Sin=living souls that bad guy makes into a new 'body' to live in.
Now, to answer your first part.
My guess is that the souls that yevon collects collect over time, otherwise each Calm would let the last fayth rest in peace (the ones in gagazet wouldn't be alive anymore, like they aren't at the ending) Because they add up (although, does yevon just hold onto them everytime the last material body dies while he takes the time to make a new body?) the original fayth (The pied piper ones:D) still retain the original essense of the first Sin (sin is truly eternal) It would seem though that Yevon can't completely control his bodies though. Just like Jecht was calm enough to listen to the Hymn of the Fayth in the second-to-last battle, I'm guessing the other fayths could rebel at times as well, long enough to have some of them dreaming of their beloved Zanarkand (this is the part I'm not clear on, what does zanarkand and the war with bevelle have to do with yevon? Gotta hunt machen down-- he might be the one that tells all this. or it might be someone back in bevelle) before it was destroyed (since I dont' remember this part, I can't explain anything about when or why they're dreaming of it)
Anyways, because some of the fayth are constantly powering the dream zanarkand (the same way others power the aeons) Sin, which those fayth compose a part of, is able to follow the link to the dream, from spira. Which makes sense.
What doesn't make sense (at least to me) is how jecht got to the real spira in the first place. The second to last calm (in the current yunapeople's spira time) must have just ended, and the fayth decided to go 'hey, let's make sure all that dream stuff is still working!' and picked up Jecht by accident (perhaps they also got his friends and they were executed while jecht was in prison:D).
That or Jecht was destined to find the crystal and save the princess! wait. . .wrong games, but it's the only seemingly logical conclusion I can come up with:)
Anyways-- I hope this made some sense, if you're still reading these topics (well, two weeks isn't *that* long. . .) This part of the game is one of the reasons I like FFX so much:D (that and Auron)
*looks up*
-f. a banned user-- forgive me for posting this then, but I really don't feel like letting it go back into the ether of byte-age:/
well, to retain some semblance to the topic, we'll go back to the second-to-last post.
Notice how the game starts with the scene in zanarkand. Notice how that scene comes up again. The entire first half of the game is a flashback. 'I was kind of getting tired of this whole 'sin's toxin thing' instead of 'Man, I'm getting tired of this whole 'sin's toxin thing'.
After that point it changes tense, and yay, you actually get to the good parts:D
I like some of your explanation back there - I never went back to the temples because I didn't know I could talk to each Aeon's fayth; next time I play FFX I'm going to have to do that. :)
However, my understanding was that Sin was made from the Final Aeon, not random souls. Everytime a summoner's companion sacrificed themselves to become the Final Aeon, Yu Yevon embodies them and as the two of them gather strength, the former Final Aeon becomes the new Sin (hence why Jecht is Sin during FFX - he was Braska's Final Aeon.) That's why all the Aeon's had to be destroyed at the end, to prevent Yu Yevon from embodying them and beoming the new Sin. Then, with no where left to go, the party was able to defeat Yevon himself.Quote:
My guess is that the souls that yevon collects collect over time, otherwise each Calm would let the last fayth rest in peace (the ones in gagazet wouldn't be alive anymore, like they aren't at the ending) Because they add up (although, does yevon just hold onto them everytime the last material body dies while he takes the time to make a new body?)
Also, I think Fayth is just the name of an unresting soul, not just someone killed by Sin. For instance, Seymour's mother sacrificed herself to become Anima, and she is considered a Fayth.
Anyway, I find it ironic that the people of Spira worshipped Yevon as a god, and believed Sin was their punishment for using machina, when it was really the sins of Yevon which caused such destruction.
I didn't intend for it to seem like 'random souls', but people that yevon had lured to begin the aeon process. Like I said, I think they add up overtime (a little piece of all the previous fayth that had become Sin, while the largest piece of Sin is the latest fayth), which would give them a connection with zanarkand..
Or perhaps it's just Yevon reliving old times.
However, I think it's lulu tells us that fayth are specifically the people who give up their still living souls to become encased in stone [to become the aeons]
What's more ironic about yevon-worship is that all the maesters in Spira (well the dead ones anyways(well, mika I guess)) knew about it, but continued the practice so they could keep their high status.
Oh, okay - that clears it up a bit. I've always found it confusing as to exactly what happened to the fayth.
As for the preists of Yevon, I agree with you - I've always thought that one of the most interesting aspects of FFX was that it made a social commentary on the ease by which organized relgions can become extreamely corrupt.
I got some doubts (I finished the game december 24 12:00 Pm what a lonely man), I know they get off topic, but I prefered this than created a new one. so , here I go.
- When I saw the first FMV with Sauron holding his ( I donīt know , Sakeīs holder ?)pointing at sin, I thought trough all the game that sauron was the summoner of sin ( I swear he was the bad guy !), now I know thatīs not true , so, Why is sauron doing that ?, Can auron speak to Sin like he did ?, why he donīt do that again in the game ?.
- A lot of confussion about zanarkand, Itīs was detroyed in the war against bevelle or was destroyed by sin ?, The sin that destroy Tiduīs Zanarkand at the beginning is Jecht, so, The faith let him in their dream ? .
- If sin posess a new aeon but donīt die , why is there that 10 years period calm?, sin was created by Yunalesca father (Yevon what a mess!), so, why he atack zanarkand when he is from there, I sin created just for Yevon glory ( like i create the sickness and then I create the only cure, so everybody adore me forever ), why was sin created ???!?!?!?!??!. Is kinda confusning, yevon is from zanarkand, zanarkand is atacked by sin, the faith from zarankand dream another zanarkand , that zanarkand is atacked by sin, The atack of sin should be at bevelle !
- Auron been dead can ride Sin , but what about the fight over sin ?, what about the toxin ?. We now how tidus get to spira, but how Jecht get to spira and why ?, why him ?.
- in the first scene with the fayth he says something to tidus like "no, not today", and he acts like he knows who is him (weird), what is that ?.
- what the heck is doing Seymour inside of Sin ?,. how he did get in , and why he is the chosen one to be into sin if Jecht was already inside ?. Who was inside the sin that Braska killed ?
I know there are a lot of stupid questions but, this forums are here for that ,right ?
No, Auron wasn't pointing his Sake jug at Sin, he was drinking it. He did that because he knew what going to happen, he was sent there by Sin to bring Tidus to Spira. So he decided to carelessly drink some Sake in order to seem badass to all the fanboys. He doesn't do it anymore within the game, because he simply doesn't need to. He's in Spira, Tidus is in Spira... Why would he ride Sin again?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
Spira's Zanarkand was destroyed by both the war, and by Sin. Yevon summoned it during the war, which sent Zanarkand into oblivion. And yes, the fayth did let Sin in their dream because it was their intent to pull Tidus out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
Okay, Sin was created by Yevon to destroy the Bevelle army, who was in Zanarkand at the time... Therefore Zanarkand was destroyed as well. Also, Yevon didn't create the religion... Bevelle did. In order to cover up the mess that they caused, they made Yevon a religious icon so that people would forget about the war and "atone" for their sins. Oh and the Calms don't necessarily last for ten years... Just a random period of time until the next Sin is reborn.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
The toxin is a hoax, there's no such thing. As for Jecht getting to Spira, this isn't mentioned... But I believe the fayth sent him there for the same reason they sent Tidus later on.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
Well he doesn't really know who he is exactly, but he's seen him around before. So he's able to act calm around him. Tidus didn't know what he meant by "No, not today" but he agreed anyway because he was pressed for time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
Seymour wasn't chosen to be inside of Sin. He went inside voluntarily because he wanted to control Sin. How he got there before you guys did, I have no idea. He probably met up with Sin somewhere else, being dead and all it must've been easy. And the previous final Aeon was inside the Sin which Braska defeated. Just like Jecht was to the current Sin.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
What I find interesting is how Auron's jug of sake has a never ending supplie of sake. I wish I had one that did that.
thanks a lot ijimonji, but your answers make me think about a couple more questions.
- Why Sin keeps atacking towns, he was summoned to destroy bebelle but it keeps damaging everyone.is sin an aeon , or a yevon armor to live forever ?, what are the reason of yeavon to keep killing ?
- Why bevelle created that Yeavon teachng things like the "fobidden machina ", they were repent to destroy zanarkand , why use the name of the enemy yevon ?, I think is pretty funny to see how everyone is saying all the way to zanrkand "yevon this, yevon that" and when they get to yunalesca and she says "yu Yevon" they say, Who is that one ? Who is yu yevon ?.
- what is the main porpuse of faith dreaming a new zanarkand.
what a big story for a game, everytime I finish a FF itīs the same glorious thing.
Sin was created to destroy. That's it's sole purpose. It doesn't matter what, but it needs to destroy in order for Spira's spiral of death to continue forever.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
They use Yevon's name, because Bevelle is afraid of Yevon. As long as they continue to worship him, they think that they'll be safe from another attack. I'm sure they realize they're contradicting themselves.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
Because Zanarkand was destroyed and that was Yevon's homeland, he forced the fayth to dream up a new Zanarkand to keep it in a perfect state forever. Then the fayth rebels and sends Tidus to destroy Sin because they're tired of dreaming.Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilder
I say auron was just hailing sin, since he knew it was jecht.
"*holds up his jug*
wassup old buddy? 10-4"
although, the first time I thought he was controlling Sin too. "hey, this must be the dark wizard of teh game!"
"dangit, he's not, but man he's good with a sword"
clever...
I always thought Tidus was sent to Spira to destroy Sin for ever, so Sin would neven come back again.
Somewhat... Jecht wanted Tidus to defeat him, but he was brought to Spira by Auron so he could learn the truth for himself.