Zack/Cloud *unmarked spoilers*

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Originally Posted by SeeDRankLou

Now, normally when one takes medicine, one already has the systems of the illness. You take the medicine, the symptoms continue until the medicine kicks in, if it even works. However, if you have taken the medicine before hand, i.e. a vaccine or preventative medicine, then your body is ready for the illness before the illness is even there, and it can ward it off without symptoms. So, this is why I believe that Zack was unaffected by the JENOVA cells. He was infused with mako energy to make him a SOLDIER, so in essence he had taken the vaccine for JENOVA cells. It's not said that Cloud is treated with both JENOVA cells and mako (Hojo's notes only say JENOVA cells), but he probably was. So Cloud was given the medicine either shortly beforehand or afterwards, apparently not long enough to properly fend off the JENOVA cells. And who knows if it was even enough to do so in the first place. But what saved Cloud from the same fate as the rest of the Sephiroth clones was Tifa. When he saw Tifa, what was left of his consciousness triggered a reaction with the JENOVA cells to make him into the person that he became. Otherwise, he would have just stayed the way he was and one day wondered off to the north crater like the rest of them. When he falls into the lifestream the first time and receives mako poisoning, he kind of like he was heavily injected with the medicine for JENOVA cells. So when they finally finished working and Tifa helped him find his consciousness again, he was himself again. Notice that from here on through the game he no longer experiences any voices or meetings with himself or headaches of any kind. This is just they way I see things though.

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I think there's one thing you got confused. The SOLDIER get infected by Mako energy and Jenova cells when they join SOLDIER. Zack was already a SOLDIER when Hojo did those Jenova experiments to Cloud and him, so since Zack already had Jenova cells inside him, he was immune to their effects. However, Cloud never made it into SOLDIER so the combination of his weak self-image and Jenova cells got him totally messed. This is said by Cloud after you get him back from the Lifestream:

CLOUD: "You see, someone in SOLDIER isn't simply exposed to Mako energy. Their bodies are actually injected with Jenova cells... For better or for worse, only the strong can enter SOLDIER. It has nothing to do with the Jenova Reunion. But weak people... like me, get lost in the whole thing. The combination of Jenova cells, Sephiroth's strong will, and my own weaknesses are what created me. Everyone knew that. I'm... Cloud... the master of my own illusionary world. But I can't remain trapped in an illusion any more... I'm going to live my life without pretending."

I don't think Cloud got rid of Jenova cells after getting out of the Lifestream. He just found himself and restored his self-image. Besides, the Jenova you had chased through the entire game (the one who looked like Sephiroth, and whose Birth, Life and Death forms you fought) was destroyed and the real Sephiroth was in the Northern Crater, sleeping and waiting for the Meteor to hit the Planet. The Reunion wasn't going on anymore, so neither Sephiroth nor Jenova were trying to control those with Jenova cells anymore, so that's why Cloud doesn't go berserk for the rest of the game.

If you remember, Cloud hears Sephiroth's voice in his head once more, after the final battle. He gets messed up one more time, and inside his mind, he Omnislashes Sephiroth to shreds. However, after this, you see both red and green lights going inside Cloud. Red indicates Jenova, green indicates Holy/Lifestream. The screen blinks because of those lights, and after a while only green energy flows out of Cloud, and there's no signs of Jenova's red energy anywhere. You could interpret this in many ways. However, I always think it so that this is where Lifestream cleans Jenova cells out of Cloud for good. It also works with the symbolic meaning that Cloud destroyed Sephiroth (who symbolizes Jenova) in his mind to be free of those evil cells.

BTW I still have doubts about how Zack can die if a few Shinra guards shoot a few bullets through his chest. Cloud and Tifa got Sephiroth's huge sword impaled through their hearts (and Cloud didn't have Mako or Jenova cells that time, he was just a normal guy) and they still survived. Cloud killed Sephiroth, but within five years, Jenova revived him. Now why wouldn't it be possible that the Jenova cells inside Zack restored him too, though he was still messed up because of the damage, so he ended up sick in the pipe in Midgar?

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth1999AD

BTW I still have doubts about how Zack can die if a few Shinra guards shoot a few bullets through his chest. Cloud and Tifa got Sephiroth's huge sword impaled through their hearts (and Cloud didn't have Mako or Jenova cells that time, he was just a normal guy) and they still survived. Cloud killed Sephiroth, but within five years, Jenova revived him. Now why wouldn't it be possible that the Jenova cells inside Zack restored him too, though he was still messed up because of the damage, so he ended up sick in the pipe in Midgar?

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1. No one can survive numerous bullet wounds point-blank. Those Shinra guards tore Zack up. Also, Zack exhibited NO RESPONSE to the Jenova cell injections, so the Jenova cells wouldn't have helped keep him alive anyway.

2. In the flashback, Tifa almost died. So did Cloud. Hojo saved Cloud by rushing him in his unconcious state to the lab so he could experiment on him.

3. Jenova didn't revive Sephiroth directly(or, at the very least, it's a big assumption to say so). His Jenova cells, however, did keep him alive while his body was frozen in stasis.

Aeris was zacks girlfreind???

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Originally Posted by Carnage

Aeris was zacks girlfreind???

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*sighs* Yes, she was.

The reason that sephiroth survived cloud at the niblhiem reactor is the fact that they were standing over a pool of mako. and in my theory mako is a secret chemical that inhances the body and mind therefore making the body heal faster, so when Cloud struck sephiroth he fell into the pool therefore healing him and thats how he survived. But mako messes with the j-cells so sephiroth would have been temporarly incapitated, (ergo the 5 years he wasnt seen). and when he comes back from his mako enhanced state, takes what he thought was ritefully his all along: "the promised land" blames shin-ra for all there wrong doings and cuts off the head of shin-ra. Totally unaware of the vice prez: Rufus, he would not have known because he was "incapitated". this is why cloud starts freaking out at the reactor, it was when Sephiroth returned. (Cloud always freaks out when sephiroth comes near). Well thats my two cents. :confused:

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Originally Posted by TheAbominatrix

JENOVA cells make a person hard to kill, but being shot point blank in the head multiple times is more than enough to do the job. Not to mention that the man in the tube had a number tattoo, and Cloud didnt, so it's not too far of a stretch to assume that Zack didnt, either.

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ACTUALLY, Cloud was the only clone to not recieve a tattoo... or number... "What number am i?" Its because he was said to be a failure...

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Originally Posted by MistaCloudStrife

ACTUALLY, Cloud was the only clone to not recieve a tattoo... or number... "What number am i?" Its because he was said to be a failure...

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And hasnt it been said that the experiments had no effect on Zack? Or did I imagine that one? Wouldnt that warrant him not having a number? Not that it matters anyway, since, as I said, being riddled with bullets would kill anyone, no matter what.

As I said, the experiments had no effect on Zack because he was already a SOLDIER and he already had Mako and Jenova cells inside him, so he was immune to the effect of Jenova cells. BTW Is it known whether Hojo infected Cloud with Mako energy in addition to Jenova cells, or where did Cloud get his blue Mako eyes?

You have to read the pages in the basement of the shinra mansion... it never says whos who... but when you find out that CLOUD was the failure... it clears everything up...

And about the bullets....

To prove the effects of jenova cells and mako... i will give you an example....

Ahhheeem...

Aeris - stabbed in the back thru to her stomach... dead.

Cloud (mako, a TINY bit of mako not like that of SOLDIER) - Stabbed in the stomach and thru the back... lived.

Now... Zack... (Injected with J cells AND more Mako showering than a normal soldier) he was shot by tons of bullets... (Never was it stated he was shot a bunch of times in the head) as you can see it was his body that was shot since his body was jumping up and down while getting shot... not his head... anyways... the person in the tube was in the same kind of state that Cloud was after Cloud was stabbed... twitching head and everything like that...

NOW... if you really know FFVII, you should already know that Sephiroth was the first one... has the #1 tattoo... Now... Cloud and Zack were the 2nd and 3rd people to be tested on (To make the Seph clone)... and CLOUD was the one with no number... if you payed attention... the man in the tube has the tattoo number... DUN DUN DUN #2... So.... that since it cant be Cloud... the only person it really could be is Zack... also, like i said before... the man outside the tube said he found that man on the outskirts of Midgar... the EXACT place where Zack and Cloud were left for dead.... and just so you know... Hojo never said that both specimens (Cloud and Zack) were failures... just one...

Now either my theory is right... or that is just TOO many coincidences... And squaresoft just made it like that on accident... Which i highly doubt... but whatever you think... ur entitled to your opinion...

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Originally Posted by Carnage

Aeris was zacks girlfreind???

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thats what i said! :) i love these threads, there so insightful. Please continue. :)

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Originally Posted by Carnage

Aeris was zacks girlfreind???

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Check my formula

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Originally Posted by Sephiroth1999AD

As I said, the experiments had no effect on Zack because he was already a SOLDIER and he already had Mako and Jenova cells inside him, so he was immune to the effect of Jenova cells. BTW Is it known whether Hojo infected Cloud with Mako energy in addition to Jenova cells, or where did Cloud get his blue Mako eyes?

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Cloud got his "blue mako eyes" from injections of Mako, so the logical conclusion was that Hojo, indeed, injected Cloud with Mako. :p

Oh, and Zack wasn't "immune" to Jenova cells. He exhibited no reaction from them, so was called a failure(look at Hojo's notes). Since he didn't have a number, he wasn't given successful Jenova cell injections before. Cloud did react a little, but Hojo didn't see him getting any stronger, so also deemed him a failure. Neither received numbers.

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Zack = girlfriend of : Aeris

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Reread that part of your formula again. :p

What Raist said. Not to mention that the tube is not even close to the exact place where Zack dies, and in Advent Children, Cloud is seen paying his respects to Zack's grave. And so on and so forth. Not to mention that the guy looks nothing like Zack, and no doubt Aerith would recognize him. And now I have to go move stuff.

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Originally Posted by K-chan

I don't get it. So, the memories Cloud was having at the start of the game were all Zack's? What happened to Zack though? 0_o Its been a while since I played the game.

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It wasnt atually zacks memory it was clouds own memories, the memory ware tifa was neeing next her dead father, zack had already ran past that part, if you havent gone to the part ware cloud fights sephiroth in nebleim(forget how you spell) :laughing: it tells you all that happened that time :shifty: :chop:

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Originally Posted by Maxx Power

Zack = girlfriend of : Aeris
Cloud = messed up
Zack + Cloud + Whole Nibelheim incident + Zack dying = Cloud + Zack's memories
But Cloud <> Having memory of Aeries
As Zack's memories <> Everything, rather Zack's memories = What he told Cloud
E=mc2

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LOL but :) i still think that there were all still clouds memorys

Do not double post. Use the edit/delete button. ~ Leeza

uh... to make a long story short cloud went to niblehiem sehiroth read somethings and went insane zack and cloud get knocked out and experimented on then half way through the experiment they get away, zack put up a resistance and died and they thought cloud was dieing but cloud lived and kept zack's memories or part of his recent memories not inclueding aerith and thus that's what happened from my part of view. Any questions?