The Direction that Square is taking these days...

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Yea, I hate it how magic have become completely useless in the later games. Why use magic when you can hit for 99999 with the normal attack? Argh... in FF4 and FF6 the use of black magic was vital... in FFVIII, FFX and FFX2 magic is completely useless.

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Oh please, did Square leave Offering, Genji Glove and the Atma Weapon out of your copy? Cecil dealt more damage than some of Rydia's strongest spells at level 99 too.

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Nope, thay are all far too easy. Even the so called "super bosses" who were made for the 1 and singel purpose: to be challanging can be killed with a 1 hit-kill attack these days... or you could just make all your characters invurnable trough the whole battle with "cheat-items". I seriously just can't stand it when people use Zanmato to finish off the Drak Aeons and Penance and then say: "OMG! I defeated the hardest boss in the game!!!"
In my opinion that's just patetic...

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Again, don't smurfing use the "cheat items" if you think they make the game too easy. I can beat FF4, FF5 and FF6 with holding the confirm button constantly if I'm 20 levels higher than square expected me to be.
I hate repeating myself, especially on a messageboard here people can read it as many times as they please.

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can't admit that because then I'd be betraying my own opinion. I feel that the original FF battle system is way more challenging than these new ones where you can rapidly press "X" through every fight. At least you had to focus on what you were doing in every fight.

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This has got nothing to do with the battle system, this has got to do with what your level is.
In FF1, you enter 4 commands. you can't really tell which character will act first, or if the enemy will kill you before it gets to act. And sure you can beat FF1 with a party of 4 fighters by pressing "confirm" all the time, and use some sort of potion every once in a while. I don't know about you, but I always use lots of different skills when I play through my games. Just because you can, because it is indeed possible to go through a game in an easy way, you don't have to. The games are made so that new people, and people who don't want to spend all day playing games can complete the games too. This way more people will be able to enjoy the games, thus more money for S-E. Seasoned RPG players like us can always make a bigger challenge out of it. Just look at GameFAQs and all the low level guides there. I don't really think playing through FF10 without using aeons, the sphere grid, or equipment customisation is very easy. Sure, it's easier when you have a guide telling you exactly what to do, but try figuring it out by yourself.

Squares new plan is to release 12 products a year. This is supposed to help them developall there different series, Star Ocean FF KH etc.
Again Unlike Feion I enjoyed the later games more than the older ones so you couldnt say Squares worsening. You're just not as into them.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Oh please, did Square leave Offering, Genji Glove and the Atma Weapon out of your copy? Cecil dealt more damage than some of Rydia's strongest spells at level 99 too.

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Well, atleast there's only 1 Atma Weapon and only 1 Offering... so only 1 person can do it that way + Ultimax2 (with gembox) is very close to being just as powerfull. And Rydias Meteo always deal 9999 dammage... not to mention the fact that Rydia couldn't hit normaly for more dammage than her magics did which means that you still have to use magic with her even if Cecil have more effective phsycical attacks.

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Originally Posted by Mirage

Again, don't smurfing use the "cheat items" if you think they make the game too easy. I can beat FF4, FF5 and FF6 with holding the confirm button constantly if I'm 20 levels higher than square expected me to be.
I hate repeating myself, especially on a messageboard here people can read it as many times as they please.

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What annoys me are those who think they are great since they beat a hard superboss... with an instant-kill attack.
It really annoys me that Square make stuff like hero's and Zanmato into the FF games... yes, I can do it without using them... but I want the challanging super bosses to be just so hard that none who just relies on overpowered attacks and invurnability can beat them. :tongue:
But in FFVIII and FFX you don't need to be 20 levels higher to do that... :tongue:

You don't need to repeat yourself if you don't want to... :p

Oh, and another thing... I don't like how everything's the same for all the characters except the limmitbreaks. I know it's like this in FFVII and FFVIII as well. But really... it's much more fun when it's like in FFIV, FFVI and FFIX... that everyone have different abilities as well. It's much better that way. :p

Hmmm... I think there was something else I was going to moan about but I can't remember exactly what...

Edit: Oh, yea... the music is also getting whorse... FFX had good music but nothing compared to the old FFs music... and FFX2s music just sucks.

The only thing I have to add at this point is, what's wrong with FFX-2's battle system? It's essentially the same ATB battle system used in every game in the numbered series since FF4, that some fans were crying to have back after FFX. That, and it's faster, and adds more depth in the form of chains and the Dressphere system (read: job system - which contributed much to the greatness of FFV, and works almost as well in FFX-2). The battles in FFX-2 were as fun for me as they had ever been in nearly all previous FF titles.

And, I hate to say it, but I don't play RPGs much for story these days, anyway. If I did, I would be buying new games instead of replaying my old ones. And honestly, I don't feel that story outweighs gameplay at all. That's not to say that I feel one is clearly more important than the other, but disregarding gameplay entirely has the potential to lead to a very boring gaming experience. The plot can be wonderful, but if I openly sigh everytime I hear the battle music start to play, I'm probably going to play a different game. On the other hand, if a tale is tiring me, I can keep at it knowing the fact that after that long sequence of boring dialog, there's a fun game to be played.

Seem's to me, feioncastor, you have a problem with the people who play Final Fantasy games rather than the quality of the product.

As for the difficulty of the games. That's down to opinion. If you level up enough then every FF game is easy to complete.

And finally if I want an English lesson i'll ask for one. Don't be patronising.

Dude, no offense but Final Fantasy wasn't that intellectual, or difficult really. I mean i was 4 when it came out, and I played with my brothers and beat it. Of course, DoS is a thousand times easier. I find it hilarious that everyone said the new dungeons were so hard... I went beat Lich, then got airship, class up, then Tiamat, yes Tiamat next, then the wind cave at level 40. Not difficult. I killed Kary with one hit... wait it's not Kary anymore, well whatever it is, the fire Lady.

Yeah they're easier, but still fun, and who cares what others think, as long as you know the truth. There will always be people to claim they are something they are not, you just got to live with it...

THE JACKEL

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Originally Posted by SePhO_zO

The only thing I have to add at this point is, what's wrong with FFX-2's battle system?

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It's too chaotic.

All I really want to say is that FFX didn't really live up to the earlier FFs and FFX2 was just an average game.
I also hate the fact that FFXI is an online game only... so it's basicaly FFX2 and FFXI that made me think that everything is going wrong with the newer FFs. :greenie:

Well, we can agree on that it's annoying that people brag about beating bosses with cheap attacs, Ultima Shadow :].
I personally don't have anything against very customisable characters. However, there should be some limitations. I like it when you only have one chance to do the characters' core build, but that you can build him however you like. After that you should be allowed to do some adjustments to them whenever you please.
Also, I don't think FFX-2 and FFXI are very good indicators on how FFXII and beyond will be. FFX-2 was rather experimental, and FFXI isn't a traditional RPG at all. I think it is cool that Square wants to try out a lot of different stuff anyway.
About FFX-2's battle system; I don't really think it's very chaotic. It's got a better flow, and you line up in a more 'proper' way in battles. I mean, you rarely stand in a perfect row when fighting. Attack chaining also let you time attacks, and is another tactical element in the battles. I also like the idea of charging up for a spell then cast it. It doesn't make sense that you can pull off a high powered spell the second after decide on using it. I am also a fan of job systems in FF games, and I was pleased by the way they did it in FFX-2. Sure, i hate how they called it Dress spheres, but I can live with that :).

originals may be the best :) , but i'm a kind of person whose motto is somewhat "change is better" :cool: . i'm with the more advanced, evolved FFs on PSX/PS-2 ;) . i think FFX kind of has the weakest storyline however :eek: :p .

I really only have one thing I think is awful about newer FF's.

Simply put they are too easy. Sure you can do it without abilities armor... etc... but part of the fun is to combine abilites into interesting chains of attacks. That leads me to say that FF tactics has the best battle system. But anyways I think they should have a choice of easy, moderate or hard when you start a new game... I know I would always go with hard. In FF7 I am currently only playing in the hope to finish the story myself... the battle system while intriguing at first has definately lost it's appeal by the air raid on midgar. The only thing I look forward to are boss battles... I groan when I hear the random battle music... talk about boring just gotta click.

And I have played it at lower lvls and the game is still a breaze so being able to choose a difficulty setting would be nice and would solve most problems in my mind.

Also I like being able to make my party of whomever I want... the others are almost always with you anyways... the leader isn't always the best fighter.(in case you can't tell I don't really care much for many of the new leads that are forced into your party).

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

For example, no one in 1994 would've said "OMG CECIL IS TEH BOMB111!!!" because RPGers back then didn't talk like that. We used more civil means of expressing ourselves. People frequently talk this way about current FF characters such as Auron, Yuna, Rikku, Tidus, Sephiroth, Cloud, Squall, and so forth. Perhaps now you'll see people talking that way about Cecil, Terra, and the older characters, but you didn't see it back then. And not just because the internet wasn't around, but because of the people who appreciated the games. If someone was intelligent enough to actually play and understand Final Fantasy 1, they were far too intelligent to say something "FIGHTERS R TEH SH*T!!!". And now it's become so that any moron can play and understand these games that were once a status symbol of our sophistication. It's like when Mel Gibson played Hamlet in 1989. A disgrace to high class.

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I don't know what kind of image you have in your head of adults in 1993 sitting around playing Final Fantasy II, but they were certainly not classy. And neither are you, if you think being a prick about 'common' people liking final fantasy or shakesphere is what it's all about. And, FYI, NO RPG is hard. All you have to do is invest time in leveling up, on my first, or so (rentals, lost save games and all that) playthroughs of FFIV, FFV and FFVI I had about the same ammount of trouble as on FFIX, and FFVIII. Maybe not so much FFVII and X because I was older when I played them.

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Originally Posted by feioncastor

Heh. I don't believe that I am more intelligent than anyone specifically. I said that there's a group of people who could never beat a game like FF1 NES because they don't have the patience or intellect to do it. I am better than those people, and there are many of them. But just because someone hasn't beaten FF1 doesn't mean that they couldn't perhaps they haven't tried yet. Perhaps if they did, it would be no problem, but they can't because they don't own an NES, which most people don't these days.

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I understand 'patience is a virtue' but having enough patience to run around leveling up for a few more hours, in order to find out what happens to the light warriors, doesn't make you any better than anyone else. And the 'intelligence' needed to be able to add the little numbers that come up under a monster to know when you should switch your characters aims is nothing a 19 year old should be bragging about.

Ok, then... now I ask you: "Why is the battle system in FFX2 perfect?"
(no matter what you'll answere... I'll be able to counter it! )

ok im new here so im not sure how you post what pepole already said and have it respectfully say who said it (if that makes sense) but im responding to yours "Ultima shadow" you asked now im gonna answer (congrats on the 8 posts by the way ;) ) now then FF-2 is perfect for the following reason..its the only FF game that i played so far that "flows" which means say you have an alchemist in your party and both your allies are dead and you have minimum HP and you decide "hey i think ill use a mega phoenix right about now" and the bar is filling and its just about to fill all the way when BAM an enemy attacks you just before you use it..and your like "gee o well guess i have to start all over again" WRONG the mega phoenix and the ATB system dont let you down cause of your awsome sense of luck and timing and all 3 of your party memebers are revived! that is awsome!! thats why its perfect!! and yes this is based off a real life experience! and OK maybe thats a bit of an exaggeration and maybe its not "perfect" but it makes battles very fun (if you dont have menu on "wait" of course) cause you can select attack or somthing..and wait till an opponnet goes to charge you..then you let him have it..then he stalls then your other buddy goes in for the kill! (or "chain" in this case) THAT IS AWSOME now please im rambling..you tell ME whats wrong with it so i can be wrong as usual and go about my merry way

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Originally Posted by Ultima Shadow

Edit: Oh, yeah... the music is also getting worse... FFX had good music but nothing compared to the old FFs music... and FFX2s music just sucks.

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Agreed. That was what I liked least about that game. 95% of the music was horrid. I couldn't stand the main battle theme. Nothing at all like the classic FF battle music. The battle music from X was ok, but there hasn't been any really outstanding FF soundtracks since VIII, IMHO. A couple songs stand out here and there (I liked Real Emotion and 1000 Words, actually. But that's it), but overall music? FFX had decent music, ranging from "fairly nice" to "terrible", but FFX2's music all fell under the category of "ouch". They need to get a composer who is not tone-deaf to do the music for the next FF game.

I'd like to state an apology to everyone I pissed off with this thread. I assure you, this was not my intent. I was just bringing up the way I felt and asking if anyone else felt the same way. I wasn't trying to upset anyone or offend anyone, and it looks like that has happened. So I'm sorry

I realized when I read a post that someone said it looks like my problem lies with the people, not the game. And that seems to be true. And I'm sorry, because as I said, that was not my intent. I don't getting people upset, and when someone is, I try to fix the situation so they're not.

Really, I'm glad that people are getting enjoyment out of Square. You see, they shaped my life tremendously. They influenced who I've become. My most fond memories of childhood almost always include my brothers and I playing some FF game. Seriously, the best times of my life.

Interestingly enough, FF7 was the last one my brother Joe and I played together. I was discussing this topic with him, and he pointed that out to me. He said, "Maybe you don't like FF games cause we're not there to play them with you. Your favorite ones are all ones that we all played together, so maybe it was the togetherness that you enjoyed, more than the game. The game just facilitated it." And I think he was right.

Except for Tactics. He didn't like Tactics, and I absolutely loved it.

So again, I'm sorry for blowing up at all of you, and I hope that your FF experiences generate the same wonderful memories that mine did. It's really great to look back on.

Feion

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Originally Posted by MecaKane

And, FYI, NO RPG is hard.

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Have you ever played Zelda: a link to the past? That's also considered an RPG... and the boss in that freaking forest in the dark world is HARD!!! :p And so is some of the puzzels and dungeons.

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Originally Posted by Monol

ok im new here so im not sure how you post what pepole already said and have it respectfully say who said it (if that makes sense) but im responding to yours "Ultima shadow" you asked now im gonna answer (congrats on the 8 posts by the way ;) ) now then FF-2 is perfect for the following reason..its the only FF game that i played so far that "flows" which means say you have an alchemist in your party and both your allies are dead and you have minimum HP and you decide "hey i think ill use a mega phoenix right about now" and the bar is filling and its just about to fill all the way when BAM an enemy attacks you just before you use it..and your like "gee o well guess i have to start all over again" WRONG the mega phoenix and the ATB system dont let you down cause of your awsome sense of luck and timing and all 3 of your party memebers are revived! that is awsome!! thats why its perfect!! and yes this is based off a real life experience!

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But that's 1 of the things I DON'T like! :p That everything happens at the same time... it makes it feel more real time and less turnbased... and I want my FFs completely turnbased! :tongue: So basicaly... I don't like the way it "flows". I also hate the command setup... it just doesn't feel right. There's too much colour and stuff in it or something... I'm not really sure why but I think it looks like crap. :greenie: I'm not a fan of the chains either. It only mess up everything, in my opinion. As for the thing about timing and luck... I hate to rely on luck... and timing is even more needed when you fight Omega Weapon in FF8 without junctioning... being 1/10sec too late with selecting a command may mean Game Over. THAT's something I like. :D

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Originally Posted by Monol

and OK maybe thats a bit of an exaggeration and maybe its not "perfect" but it makes battles very fun (if you dont have menu on "wait" of course) cause you can select attack or somthing..and wait till an opponnet goes to charge you..then you let him have it..then he stalls then your other buddy goes in for the kill! (or "chain" in this case) THAT IS AWSOME now please im rambling..you tell ME whats wrong with it so i can be wrong as usual and go about my merry way

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That's another thing I don't like. In a turnbased RPG anyone who gets to attack first should be able to do so. Sure, that you can kill an enemy while it's attacking makes it more realistic... but I don't want RPGs to be realistic. I think they are much more fun if they're NOT too realistic... atleast when it comes to "turnbased" battles.
Also... that you have to wait to charge up some attacks only makes magic EVEN more useless. The MP cost should be enough... but seriously... the Black Mage is the most useless dress sphere in the game. In the end, the only usefull attacks are the normal attack command and "Trigger happy"... since they don't take extremely long time to charge up + they are more powerfull than any magic attack and they are the best way to create chains. I don't like it when all your characters can do 10times as much dammage as the most powerfull spell in the game, in a singel blow... but when you also have to charge up the spells for 3 hours, it's just going too far. 97% of the special attacks in this game are more or less useless. I also didn't like the "Special dress spheres"... Limmitbreaks are much better.

Well... that's MY opinion. :p And no matter what anyone say... I think the FFX2 system is "chaotic"!!! :greenie:


Also... the earlier FFs DID require more skill than the later ones... if you don't spend 1847hours leveling up before every new dungeon. In FFVIII, FFX and FFX2 you can just press the attack button in every random encounter trough the whole game... and still be at the NORMAL levels. Ofcourse people is going to dissagree... but even the easy version of FF4 require more tactics in the battles than the later FFs do. So the FFs ARE becaming easier and easier.