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Have you considered that the flag might be at half mast as a mark of respect? Its not necessarily the fact that all americans are mourning, but it could just be your nation is acknowledging the life of a man who brought hope to many?
Just a thought....
exactly
why are you so angry at something for a man who done more than the presidents? a man who inspired more than his country a man who showed many hope in times of despair
I'll add that the Pope was instrumental in the downfall of Soviet communism. If for nothing else, he should be acknowledged in America for that much.
not just America the whole world
I agree that the pope did good, but he did a lot of bad too.
He (and his church) regularly told followers that if they didn't act a certain way, like vote for certain politicians, they were going to hell.
He (and his church) condemn any form of birth control, including condoms, even when only worn for protection against STD's. Many third world countries are highly catholic and STD's are spreading at an alarming rate, even among married (non-promiscuous) people, and for fear of hell and damnation they don't use condom's, even furthering the problem.
He (and his church's) doctrine are designed to promote the catholic church and increase it's population, not to spread the word of God.
I'll stop now or I'll go on all day. I already have a severe disliking of the catholic church and everything about it and lowering the flag for the pope doesn't sit well with me.
And I know that this post will piss a lot of people off because I'm pointing out the bad in the pope, but remember that we're in EoEO and please don't attack me for stating my opinions.
much ado about nothing. It's clear now that it's more to do with your hatred toward the Catholic church than anything else. Living in Belfast, I've experienced this quite often, it's cost lives, friends lives. Your dislike of a religion should not spread to it's followers. The Pope was a Humanitarian before a Christian and a Christian before he was Catholic, a sentiment echoed by other Christian & non-Christian leaders & ordinary people throughout the world, even here, which is a BIG thing for a Protestant to say.
On your other notes, of course he condemns birth control, it's against his religon. He lived & had to preach in accordance to that. The same way other religions preach their moral guidelines. If you don't agree with that, and I don't before you ask, you don't HAVE to be a practicing Catholic.
Lastly, about the church doctrine designed to promote the Catholic church, OFCOURSE IT WAS. They were Catholic's trying to spread their form of Christianity, I don't get annoyed by Unionists promoting Unionist policies here, They are Unionists for crying out loud.
Anyway, imma go back and worry about stuff that actually needs worrying about.
it was his religeon his belief you cannot go against your belief can you? he couldnt because he was leader of that religeon he represented that religeon he couldnt do anything to change it but hopefully the next pope will shine some light witht he condom thing
but do you go As far in religeon like too far? eg Jehova's witnesses
I for one, agree with the decision to lower the flag. John Paul II was a great man, and this is Americas way of saying "We respect you" It does not mean that America supports Catholicism over another religion, or that it prefers religion over non religion. It simply means America respects great people. I don't think that the "American citizen" argument hold up either. Why should we ONLY lower the flag for Americans? Why should a symbol of respect only be reserved for Americans? I ask you this, if Nelson Mandela were to die, would you be opposed of lowering the flag for him? What about Winston Churchill? (Yes, I know he is dead) or Ghandi? (Yes, I also know that he is dead)
Give me one instance where the Pope said this. I know that certain Catholic leaders have said this, however, I am almost positive that John Paul has not.Quote:
He (and his church) regularly told followers that if they didn't act a certain way, like vote for certain politicians, they were going to hell.
That is just utter nonsense. It would make sense for them to promote Catholic ideals. However, they DO spread the word of God. To deny that is pure ignorance on your part.Quote:
He (and his church's) doctrine are designed to promote the catholic church and increase it's population, not to spread the word of God.
I highly doubt there was a doctrine signed declaring everyone have their flag at half-mast for the Pope. (Or did I miss the memo?) It was most likely more based on the opinions of the private residents and business owners. It doesn't really matter if you like the Pope, they did, and wanted to honor him on his passing. I don't exactly see where the issue is.
The problem then becomes where do you draw the line? What constitutes the requirements for lowering the flag for a world leader? Also, the pope was a figure head of a church, not a world leader. Yes, he did have a lot of sway in the world, but he was not a world leader. It's an interesting subject because there aren't many people that have an such an influence outside of political borders. Ghandi is another example. Should the flag have been lowered for Ghandi? I honestly don't think it should have. What did Ghandi do for the U.S.? I know that it is self-centered to think that way, but that's why we lower the flag. To show respect for those that made America a better place. And to backtrack, with the Soviet Union collapse, that is a fair reason for lowering the flag for the pope.
I mean it is designed to literally spread the catholic church. Everything about the religion deals with having more children and covering the planet. When a church's doctrine says more about spreading themselves then about preaching the bible and other beliefs, that's not good.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cuchulainn
And also, I don't hate the catholic church, I just have issues with all of the loopholes and contradictions that are constantly ignored, as with most religions.
they cant do anything about it blame Jesus he started it
the leader of the religeon should be aloud to change it slightly but not too much
the Pope did many great things so he maybe become Saint John Paul and he must have done many great things to deserve that
Churchill saved Britain from the Nazis and Ghandi i dont understand about that
I would think, that above all else, America wants to promote the notion that it does stand for peace, liberty, freedom, the things that we were founded upon, so to lower the flag for people who have done something in promoting peace, liberty and freedom, such as Gandhi, makes sense.
Whether you agreed with the Pope or not, he was just as human as the next, and yet, in his lifetime, he touched the lives of billions of people, most for the better. I too am not a fan of some of his policies, but you have to look at the grand scheme of thigns when judging a person's legacy, not just isolated instances. Yes, he was no where near the progressive that I believe the Church needs, but he was certainly more progressive than other Popes and world leaders have been. He stood for peace at all costs and believed in forgiveness, which are two very important elements of life, of being a citizen of the world.
America is the great melting pot of the world, as we try to stand for what is best, yet hold the double standard that we are better than the rest of the world, when in fact, we should realize that we are part of the world, not above it. We, like the rest of the world, should honor people how have made great differences in life and in some of the ideals that Americans hold most dear.
Take care all.
I believe Ghandi was probably one of the greatest Humans ever to live. He maybe deserves more plaudits than anyone listed here, even the name in the topic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoden
Flying the flag at half-mast is a gesture of solidarity in a time of mourning - not an induction into the Patriot's Club.
Vatican City is a country. Any atlas or other geographical reference will attest to this. Thus, he was a world leader in a political sense. Further, as the head of the Catholic Church, he leads a group of people that numbers over one billion worldwide. Given that pronouncements relating to faith and morals made ex Cathedra are to be followed by Catholics, he was certainly something more than a figurehead. Really, if anyone is a world leader, it's the Pope.Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Mullet