African countrys are starving not through western greed or lack of resources but through mismangement, corruption and bad governments,
I cite rhodesia/zimbabwae as my example and rest my case.
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African countrys are starving not through western greed or lack of resources but through mismangement, corruption and bad governments,
I cite rhodesia/zimbabwae as my example and rest my case.
zimbabwe is different from the majority of african countries like nigeria and ethiopia. they are genuinelt starving and the government is doing all they can with what money they can get. but considering more money cos into these loans than goes into helth and education combined it is hugely difficult to do anything.
and even if certain governments are corrupt is this reason to continue with illegitimate debt? to aid the deths of millions? why not drop it and stop the line of "it's not all our fault"?
First:
I never really liked it when the intrest on a loan makes you pay a total of 6+ (or more) times the original loan... that is just nuts. I understand getting back your money(and to get a little bit back, for your *generousity*).. but that is above and beyond.
Second:
Throwing money at things doesn't solve problems.. reform does. I am not the most knowledgable on these African Nations, but I would guess that even with more money they would not greatly improve. They need help, from the ground up.
Thrid:
The inability for most americans to wish to help people comes more from laziness and lack of knowledge then greed I'd say. It is too much work to build from the ground up. Also it is too much to make the extra money to send out. As for the lack of knowledge.. Well I have yet to hear about anything of the like you are talking about on the news.
starvation in africa isn't in the news and that's the problem. it is just an accepted fact nowadays that 30,000 people will starve to death as much as it is that the sun set will and rise. it's not considered news worthy because it's not new or chaning. it's just there like it has been for a long time and always will be until things change dramatically
Exactly. It has become a norm.Quote:
starvation in africa isn't in the news and that's the problem. it is just an accepted fact nowadays that 30,000 people will starve to death as much as it is that the sun set will and rise. it's not considered news worthy because it's not new or chaning.
Basically, Africa is stuck in the stone age, with the rest of the world at the modern (or post-modern) age, and still, Africa has modern technology, which it fails to implement, due to stone age mentallity.
Nothing will change in Africa in the near or even far future, the way I see it. The people there have simply not evolved cuturally enough to hold themselves in a fast-changing world, as it is today. They cannot grow food like they did 25,000 years ago, to support a population of hundreds of millions. They wage wars in the frequency and brutallity of 5,000 years ago, but with the efficiency of modern weapons, which leads to mass killing.
It's the third world. Various conditions, most of which were not caused by the intervention of first world countries, have led to a situation where cultural evolution has halted in these areas, and they now progress no-where, with things happening like they did thousands of years ago, only on a completely different setting. Eons ago, starvation was something that could and was likely to happen, every once in a while, as was the deal with wars. Only, there weren't as many people, a and the weapons or methods of war weren't as effective.
Stone age mentallity on a modern setting leads to nothing but death and agony.
Could Africa accomplish this even if they tried? Somehow, I doubt it.Quote:
and still, Africa has modern technology, which it fails to implement, due to stone age mentallity.
You can blame the imperialist colonies for this.Quote:
Nothing will change in Africa in the near or even far future, the way I see it. The people there have simply not evolved cuturally enough to hold themselves in a fast-changing world, as it is today. They cannot grow food like they did 25,000 years ago, to support a population of hundreds of millions. They wage wars in the frequency and brutallity of 5,000 years ago, but with the efficiency of modern weapons, which leads to mass killing.
Africa would not be what it is today if it wasn't for imperialism in the past. One of the main reasons they have the stupid wars they do is because of the hostility between different subgroups of africans that was intentionally inspired by the europeans. Why would they do this? Well, it's simple. If you have people at each others throats all the time, it's easier to control them, and steal thier resources.Quote:
It's the third world. Various conditions, most of which were not caused by the intervention of first world countries
Also, the country of Africa has constantly been raped, and thier resources have been stolen by the europeans. The reason Africa is the way it is today is due to the European imperialist colonies. They are, in part, to blame for everything that goes on in Africa.
The conditions in Africain countries are atrocious. Part of the fault is when they received loans they needed to pay the interest, and for them to get the loan the conditions basically paralyzed funding for schools, and other institutions (Or at least that what I remember hearing). Also corruption within their own governments lead to where it is now. I remeber doing the 30 Hour Famine and we would watch these videos andto look at the conditions was just shocking. I woul dlike to comment on the HIV problem too, cuz they need the research and information about HIV and AIDS. There are now many africains with AIDS for they aquire it from their parents. Right now in the world there is enough food to feed everyone, it is sad that it is not being put into use so that they could end starvation.
I know this will sound cruel, but here is a hint of reality. 20% of the world population owns 80% of the Wealth and makes 80% of the pollution. Obviously the 20% is the population of Developped countries. If the birth rate increase as it is, in the near future it was caculated the Earth will not be able to support life. Also if other countries develop, that means more pollution. What effect will that have on our ecosystems?
It is kinda scary to think about it this way.
what has also led to alot of problems in africa is anoher western caused problem.
it's the map. before africa had no map. it had lots of tribes with their own territory and systems. when we invaded this was far too complicated so we created countries. ever noticed that alot of the maps of africa have nice straight borders? because they were just drawn up without care of who lived in what country like western countries are (see the expansion of germany pre 1939 to see what happens when you start mucking around with borders and splitting up people) so then by drawing up these nice random borders you had two tribes that hated each other in the same country. so the easiest way to make peace? genocide. a nice lovely war and purging of the people normally solves alot of differences.
so not only did this make africa a bit of a mess. but these countries took out nice fat loans to do this nasty deed (thanks to the helping hand of the world bank and IMF those jolly caring chaps)
which brings us back to why not just drop the debt?
They do not drop the debt cuz, there are laws and we cannot exclude anyone from a law, for it would make laws inherently pointless. But there should be reforms to the loan systems, these reforms should make a country able to pay back their loans, and interestr without crippling the country.
Yeah it is pretty sad that the genocide happened in Rwanda and the UN did very little to stop it. There were even very few peacekeepers sent, I think only 83....I can't remember if that was the total amoun tof peace keepers sent, or of Canadian peacekeepers sent. It is still sad anyways.
actually the debt if it was any other type of scenario would be conuted as illegitimate debt (legal term) and no court in the land wold up hold it.
and are we saying that this law which is killing millions of people a year cannot be broken for the sake of humanity?
No, I am not a cruel person. But laws are laws and need to be kepted in order, though I do have to say that their needs to be amendments to them, so that it will prevent terrible things from happening. We should use past knowledge to prevent the atrocities that already happened, not let them endure.
MSF folks getting arrested because of a report that talks about 500 rape victims that got treatment from them in a span of 4-6 months in Darfur (Sudan)
report: http://www.artsenzondergrenzen.nl/us...rch%202005.pdf
msf article about this(don't know if this link works): http://www.msf.org/countries/page.cf...A5EEA548F734F4
just a news-famous tidbit of how well things are going (aka not well at all)
a scenario that would be great:
"hey guys, forget the debt. know what? i'll send you some money, do whatever you want with it if as long as it helps your country get better so not really anything you want, but anyway, here's some money, and hey, have some manpower to rebuild and restructure cuz it's not liek we need it to fight a war or anything."
but oops
i wonder how many world leaders that don't live in africa can name all african countries without mapquest
That, quite simply, is a crock of bullQuote:
Originally Posted by Cloud No.9
. You pull up a legitimate source for any of this
Not to mention--how is anybody forcing them to pay us back? How many troops have we sent to collect debts?
No one is forcing them. Yet as they stand idle not paying their debts the interest increases. For that reason they probably wish to repay the debt ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
quotes regarding the figues i gave you (i worked out the interest wrong it is only infact 960%.)
and for sasquatch here are a few links since he so poltiely (cough) asked.
http://www.theperspective.org/2004/d...anleaders.html
http://www.africaaction.org/action/debt2003.htm
http://www.uua.org/uuawo/new/article.php?id=244
http://www.amsa.org/global/HPSAAN_Fo...ppt#266,16,The HIV/AIDS Crisis (powerpoint)
all cover the level of debt nigeria is suffering. which is the one i pointed out.
so yes these claims were outrageous. but true. it is outrageous in a world of plenty people are dying on such a horrific scale. no argument can possibly justify 30,000 deaths a day.