The world is flat!

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Originally Posted by boys from the dwarf

nice one dragon ash now everone agree with his/her theory and close this thread cause it does not need to be explained we can only make theories although dragon ashes theorie is good.so weve found a good theorie now everyone be quiet.

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sorry....but i disagree...
Tidus was a dream and he had free will. So that implies that everyone else had free will. I have no idea how Jecht was transported to the "real" world (does it say in the game?) but i dont think its because he wandered too far. It is around Tidus' time that sin came into existance however.
As blitzball players...i guess that would mean that they would travel alot, to away games against other cities.

Sorry boys from the dwarf....i know its pointless but i couldnt resist.

Ask Squall of SeeD.

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Originally Posted by boys from the dwarf

nice one dragon ash now everone agree with his/her theory and close this thread cause it does not need to be explained we can only make theories although dragon ashes theorie is good.so weve found a good theorie now everyone be quiet.

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Actually, Dragon Ash's post had nothing to do with the thread topic, because the topic of this thread is "What do you think is outside Dream Zanarkand?"

Dragon Ash's post basically says that Jecht and Tidus were too busy with Blitzball to care about travelling outside of their Zanarkand, she doesn't mention what she thinks is outside.

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Originally Posted by thinking of names is hard

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Originally Posted by boys from the dwarf

nice one dragon ash now everone agree with his/her theory and close this thread cause it does not need to be explained we can only make theories although dragon ashes theorie is good.so weve found a good theorie now everyone be quiet.

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sorry....but i disagree...
Tidus was a dream and he had free will. So that implies that everyone else had free will. I have no idea how Jecht was transported to the "real" world (does it say in the game?) but i dont think its because he wandered too far. It is around Tidus' time that sin came into existance however.
As blitzball players...i guess that would mean that they would travel alot, to away games against other cities.

Sorry boys from the dwarf....i know its pointless but i couldnt resist.

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no need to be so modest just cause you disagree.

anyway.when you fight sin he does some realy powerful attack thing in the fmv and it shows a view from space.there are 2 planets one is spira and the other seems to be spiras moon.that moon could be dream zanrkand or something.

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Originally Posted by Dragon Ash

The Fayth controlled the people of dream Zanarkand. They were not real people and therefore had no free will nor the ability to leave the city unless the Fayth chose to make them do so. Tidus and Jecht were the only ones who had begun to really live (I'm not quite sure how but the Fayth boy does say something about this.) They would have been the only ones who could reach the edge of the dream city and find out the dimensions of their small world. However, they were both big Blitzball stars and seemingly had little desire to leave their own little bubbles of fame and glory. One day Jecht must have wandered too far and encountered Sin and the rest is history.

That's my theory and I'm sticking to it!

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Sorry, Ash, but your theory is wrong. This is all explained in the -- sadly -- Japanese only released book entitled "Final Fantasy X: Ultimania Omega Guide."

Everyone there had free will. They are real people. They're Aeons. However, Yu Yevon placed limitations on what they could think.

I'll be more specific. "Dream Zanarkand" is really a bad, bad name for the place and is terribly misleading, and we all should stop using it. "Aeon Zanarkand" would be more fitting, as that's what the place was: A giant Aeon full of little Aeons. It exists somewhere in Spira the same as any other Aeon that is summoned into the world.

What lies beyond its borders is ocean, for certain, but it's not certain how far it's seperated from the Spiran mainland. That's something that wasn't touched upon in the Ultimania Omega Guide, sadly.

Anyway, if any of the residents discovered reason to believe that more existed outside of their city, or began to ponder if there was anything else in the world, Yu Yevon removed those thoughts from their minds. What made Tidus and Jecht so different from the others that the Bahamut Fayth told them that they had become more than dreams is that when they were touched by Sin, it somehow rewired them to where they had become completely autonomous. Yu Yevon could no longer alter their knowledge of what lay outside their city.

It should also be noted that when the summoning ended, it was the equivalent of dying for Tidus. He didn't just simply cease to exist, nor did the others in Aeon Zanarkand, as they're all real people. They were composed of Pyreflies/Spirit Energy the same as any other Aeon (and all life forms contain that very energy). When the summoning stopped, it was the same as dying for them, as -- even though they were as real as anyone in Bevelle or Besaid -- what bound them to life had just been cut off, like turning off a water spicket.


I hope that clarifies things for everyone.

So "Aeon Zanarkand" is just an island somewhere on Spira right?

I always assumed it was on another plane of existense.

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Originally Posted by Craig

So "Aeon Zanarkand" is just an island somewhere on Spira right?

I always assumed it was on another plane of existense.

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That was an assumption that I think most of us had at first. After reading about what was in the Ultimania Omega Guide, I realized that it made sense for Aeon Zanaraknd to be in Spira. Like all Aeons, it should be brought forth into the world that we see (Spira), and when Tidus' mother died, her spirit went to the Farplane of Spira.

My theory was always that it was like the Truman Show and every time they tried to get out there was something to stop them from being able to do so. But Squall's makes more sense.

Why, though, couldn't the party fly the airship to Dream Zanarkand/Aeon Zanarkand/whatever you want to call it?

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Originally Posted by The Man

Why, though, couldn't the party fly the airship to Dream Zanarkand/Aeon Zanarkand/whatever you want to call it?

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They could have if they knew where it was. Though I can't imagine what reason they really would have had to go. Defeating Sin was their objective.

well, they could go and laugh at the poor aeon people who were trapped in their summoned state in a summoned city :D

edit: actually, that raises a good question to me. If they had intervened in the summoning by destroying what was being summoned, would Yu Yevon likely have reacted in some manner? Would that have destroyed Sin, even? it might be easier to level a city than to defeat a giant space whale.

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Originally Posted by The Man

well, they could go and laugh at the poor aeon people who were trapped in their summoned state in a summoned city :D

edit: actually, that raises a good question to me. If they had intervened in the summoning by destroying what was being summoned, would Yu Yevon likely have reacted in some manner? Would that have destroyed Sin, even? it might be easier to level a city than to defeat a giant space whale.

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Well, as you see in the opening FMVs of the game, the city gets leveled by Sin itself, so that doesn't in any way impede Sin's existance. More likely than not, however, Yu Yevon just repaired the damage and removed any memory of what took place from the minds of the survivors.

Sin isn't an Aeon anyway, actually. Sin is just a whole lot of Pyreflies held together by Gravity Spells.

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Originally Posted by Squall of SeeD

Well, as you see in the opening FMVs of the game, the city gets leveled by Sin itself, so that doesn't in any way impede Sin's existance. More likely than not, however, Yu Yevon just repaired the damage and removed any memory of what took place from the minds of the survivors.

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see, that's what I get for not having played the game for a year and a half. You're probably right, of course.

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Sin isn't an Aeon anyway, actually. Sin is just a whole lot of Pyreflies held together by Gravity Spells.

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how do you reckon? Sin (or at least this version of Sin) began as Braska's Final Aeon; doesn't that make it an aeon, still?

Sin is the 'ultimate summoning', in a way. The most powerful creation of the most powerful summoner - Yu Yevon. He created a beast of malice that he used to wreak his punishment on humanity... or so I see it.

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A giant Aeon full of little Aeons. It exists somewhere in Spira the same as any other Aeon that is summoned into the world.

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I figured it was a non-corporeal 'dream', but with real, autonomous residents. The Fayth always refer to it only as a dream. We know it is a 'summoning' of a kind; that vast column of spirit energy rising out of the Fayth Cluster is where it comes from. From this, you could infer that the dream city is hidden in those dark, swirling clouds above Mount Gagazet; the same clouds that faded away after Yu Yevon's final death.
However, since it takes a colossal amount of energy to make energy into substance, I'd wager that the dream city is exactly that: a dream. It exists in the shared minds of all the Fayth, both in the temples and in the Fayth Cluster. Yu Yevon is the 'powerhouse' behind the dream; without him, the city ends. Bahamut described Yu Yevon as being both awake and asleep, constantly dreaming. This reinforces my belief in what I've postulated. The Fayth always maintain a clear distinction between 'dreams' and 'Aeons'. An Aeon is a manifestation of the summoner's own spirit; the dream city is a kind of 'collective imagining', based on their real city but with notable changes. It's a kind of 'idealised' Zanarkand, never changing, but never stagnant either. No magic, no Aeons, but enough quality of life that the inhabitants never grow bored or curious. It also seems probable that there is a dreamlike 'fog' over the minds of the citizens, such that they never think to expand their horizons.

Sin, the ultimate blend of thought and magic, is able to go effortlessly between the dream city and the real world. If Sin really was flying into the clouds above Gagazet, the Ronso would've noticed because they'd be right on the flight path. Also, they'd have felt or witnessed the effects of the Sin's violent flight through Zanarkand.

Thus do I believe that the dream city is a dream, but no ordinary dream - it is real, just not corporeal; similar to the Aeons, yet notably different.

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Originally Posted by The Man

how do you reckon? Sin (or at least this version of Sin) began as Braska's Final Aeon; doesn't that make it an aeon, still?

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Not exactly. The Aeons simply serve as a means by which Sin will have a vessel through which to channel Gravity Spells and reform Sin, with his new body (the Aeon) as the focal point of the gathering of Pyreflies. The first time he created Sin, his own body was the focal point. He simply can't generate the Gravity Spells needed to reform Sin without a body, and so he takes the Aeons bodies. Combining his own Spirit Energy with theirs, his will dominates their own.

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Originally Posted by Big D

Sin is the 'ultimate summoning', in a way. The most powerful creation of the most powerful summoner - Yu Yevon. He created a beast of malice that he used to wreak his punishment on humanity... or so I see it.

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The Final Fantasy X Ultimania Omega Guide actually says that Sin is composed of Pyreflies held together by Gravity Spells. We see evidence of this in-game in two ways:

1) Sin's appearance can be altered at will easily, as it does during Operation: Mi'hen. Go to BlueLaguna.net and download the video entitled "Judgement," or turn on your copy of FFX and go to Luca and watch the same FMV there:

http://bluelaguna.net/movies/ffx/fmvs.php


2) Mika states that Yu Yevon crafts the souls of the dead into Sin:

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Rikku
"Wait, gramps! Who's Yu Yevon?"

Mika
"He who crafts the souls of the dead into unholy armor."
"An armor called Sin."

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As we know, Pyreflies are Spirit Energy, the souls of the dead.

Also, during the game's ending, Yuna sends the Pyreflies of which Sin and the Aeons were composed to the Farplane. In the Aeons' cases, they just disippitate calmly as their Pyreflies disperse, whereas Sin goes up in a huge explosion of Spirit Energy that carries from Bevelle all the way across the Calm Lands. It was composed of millions of Pyreflies.

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Originally Posted by Big D

I figured it was a non-corporeal 'dream', but with real, autonomous residents. The Fayth always refer to it only as a dream.

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We're not given reason to believe that it is different from any other summoning. Just as with Valefor, we have a Fayth (the Fayth Cluster on Gagazet), we have a Summoner (Yu Yevon), and we have that which is summoned (the city). Also, again, it's made clear in the Ultimania Omega Guide for X that it exists somewhere in Spira.

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Originally Posted by Big D

We know it is a 'summoning' of a kind; that vast column of spirit energy rising out of the Fayth Cluster is where it comes from. From this, you could infer that the dream city is hidden in those dark, swirling clouds above Mount Gagazet; the same clouds that faded away after Yu Yevon's final death.

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I wouldn't infer that, myself. Remember, there is ocean around Aeon Zanarkand. It lies out at sea somewhere. Also, as you said, it stands to reason that someone would have noticed Sin flying into the clouds above the mountain. For that matter, they would have noticed him pulverizing the hell out of the sky when he attacks the city in the game's beginning.

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Originally Posted by Big D

However, since it takes a colossal amount of energy to make energy into substance, I'd wager that the dream city is exactly that: a dream.

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And we have that colossal amount of energy, as well as the skill to use it and the side-effects of processing that much energy. Yuna is amazed that someone is tapping into all those Fayth on Gagazet at once:

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Yuna
"Those are fayth."
[She looks at them and gasps]
"A summoning!"
"Someone is using these fayth!"
"Someone is drawing energy from all of them!"

Rikku
"This many?"

Lulu
"Who wields power on this scale, and what could they be calling?"

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We're told that Yu Yevon was a Summoner without peer, but he became trapped in his own summoning and become nothing more than a force that existed to summon. He was processing more power than he could handle while holding his own mind intact.

Those Fayth were being used to summon Tidus' Zanarkand:

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Fayth
"The remaining summoners and the townspeople that survived the war..."
"They all became fayth--fayth for the summoning."

Tidus
"The summoning... You mean Sin?"

Fayth
"No. I mean this place."
"A Zanarkand that never sleeps."

Tidus
"What?"

Fayth
"The dreams of the fayth summoned the memories of the city."
"They summoned all the buildings, all the people who lived there."

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It's clearly pointed out here that the city and all its people (including Tidus) are being summoned, and through a Fayth by a Summoner. Thus, the city and its people are Aeons.

It's not the people and city themselves are dreams. It's that their memories were processed through their dreams, and Yu Yevon tapped into those to summon Aeon Zanarkand.

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Originally Posted by Big D

Sin, the ultimate blend of thought and magic, is able to go effortlessly between the dream city and the real world.

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I mainly want to emphasise here that the city is in Spira, the same as all Aeons that are manifested from Fayth. Again, that's a point made clear in the Ultimania Omega Guide.

My theory on this subject is that the Zanarkand Tidus and Jecht are from is an aeon as many before me have pointed out, everyone inside being an aeon. What I think though, is that this Zanarkand aeon is located right next to its fayths, the reason is that nobody from Spira ever noticed this and that there is a mysterious tornado of water near the cluster of fayth used for Zanarkand and its inhabitants. The tornado could be concealing a microworld, that sin and Yu Yevon could shrink down and enter, but nobody else from spira could, and that people from the Zanarkand aeon could go far enough out to sea that they'd cross into spira but losing energy from the transition between the worlds could knock you out long enough to get lost in the seas of Spira.