Argument aside, This scene was so perfectly executed it made me change my view on Operah music. I now view it as a piece of art rather than a way to keep teenagers from hanging around 7-11.
Printable View
Argument aside, This scene was so perfectly executed it made me change my view on Operah music. I now view it as a piece of art rather than a way to keep teenagers from hanging around 7-11.
FFVI isn't fully comedy.
Like ALL FFs it is dramatic at points, sad at points, and funny at points.
Keffka does appear to be comedic at first. But as he get's further in development he goes from being the joke to the villain and then to a complet psycho!
I completly agree with the main article.
Like I say. FF has comedy, Drama and Emotion all in the same games at the apropriate times
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sasquatch
Thought I would jump in here and post my lil thoughts. Square has never hit me has being very origional. It is funny to see them try and nail the same story in different lights. Its like taco bell... sam stuff - different wrapping - and i still cannot get enough of it :) Little nicer on the digestive track though.
Anywho, I see this is very common amongst japanese storyies - the use of ancient lors or religions.. Specifically that with the tree of life. Evangelion for instance - the redone ending - Shinji actually becomes the center of the sepiroth wich makes him balance and human (or god) depending on your take. I see this farse of a tree mixed in with christanity a lot but really have never seen much of a connection.
The whole artificial human/weapon deal mentioned about celes, carries into cloud strife as well then to ViVi and possibly to Tidus...i guess. This is also a belief where an artificial life will disrupt or kill the tree of life, causeing a series of events blah blah - same as most other religions :)
The god of destruction deal with Kefka ties right into Sepiroth - (Qabbalah - Kabbalah) or the tree of life contains sepiroth - or small entities that make up a theoretical tree of life. http://www.crystalinks.com/kabala.html Although I run across many
The opera scene and theatre has a reacouring role through out the series as well.
Speaking of Kefka - He looks like a shakespearian mad man :) And the opera is nearly a rip off of Romeo and juliet revisited again in ff9 with the stage crew. I think Final Fantasy 8 was the most origonal... and mabey that is why it was so disliked?
Also - the giant tree in final fantasy IX - oh what did they call it :)
Just some preliminary drafted thoughts to toss in there - If anyone has more information on this tree of life, look at it and i bet it all ties more into the FF series and a ton of other anime/jap style stories.
Quick Evangelion ? here:
- Adam had one wife - Eve. No lilith. Cain was son of Adam and Eve, and killed his Brother Abel. The first recorded man driven sin. The man on the End of Evangelion commentary, said somthing like:
Adam had a wife named lilith whom was also created from the earth. They begot Cain, but god made Eve outta adams rib to be more loyal. Then cain killed able got sent to the land of Nod with his mother and they produced demons....
Kinda far fetched i know - but wth religion says all this - or was the guy full of it? It has been a while since i have seen the commentary, but i belive that that is close.
Bipper GOES!
I have proof
PS sorry for lack of neatness - was in a hurry and wanted to get my thoughts up :)
I was never able to take Kefka seriously. He was always a comic clown. He had his moments when he killed Leo and destroyed most of the world, but after that, he's out of the storyline for so long that when I faced him again, he was still a clown for me. His "self-help booklet" comment and other things like that, such as him jumping in rage and having tantrums, were merely amusing, and him going down in less than 2 turns (Edgar using Drill, Sabin using Bum Rush, the rest use normal attacks) didn't help much, especially when it's possible to defeat him even faster (with one attack, in fact).
The opera scene was a masterpiece, that's what I can say. When I saw it, I had never seen anything like than on a video game before. IMHO, it's one of the most beautiful music-related scenes in the series, just like FFX-2's tragic "Thousand Words" scene. The Aria and the dance were marvelous, and the duel music made for Draco vs. Ralse is also great, especially when it plays as the game switches to you trying to save Celes while Draco and Ralse are dueling. Apart from the synth opera voice, which I don't mind as it couldn't have been helped, I think there's only one part about the opera I don't like: Celes suddenly turning into a fully skilled opera singer. It takes 5-10+ years and a lot of practise to be able to sing like a real opera singer, and Celes does it all in 5 minutes? I know this is fantasy, but still...
Ok, this is really off topic, so I’ll keep it brief.Quote:
Originally Posted by bipper
Lilith appears in the Jewish manuscript as the first wife Adam who was banished from Eden for being too sexually dominant. Being made from mud, just like Adam, she considered herself equal to him, and so she would bow to Adams every command. After she was banished, God created Eve from Adams rib, and they sired Cain and Abel. Cain would later slay Abel, and then proceeded to sire a race of deamons known as the Lilim.
Ok, now this is where Evangelion comes in. Basically the idea was that humanity was really this race of demons known as the Lilim (as stated by Kaworu Nagisa in episode 24). In other words, humanity was the ultimate evil. Nice…
So yes, he did know what he was talking about, this story has just been left out o the new testament in the hope for Christianity to further oppress women (strictly IMO, but still kind of true).
Sorry, that really was of topic, but I love Eva oh so much. I really must make some sort of thread that links eva with FF...
That definatley cleared it up.
I still don't get with jewish manuscript - Why would the Bible not have it, prehapse was it a parable, that jewish teachers often used? IMRO the bible stands correct, as it is said to be by Christ etc :) /shrug its all confusing enough!
But that makes Evangelion all the better - I had the boxed complete set - but i borrowed it to a guy at college and never got em back :( lol
IF you like the religious value of FF series check out Neon Genesis Evangelion.
Sorry to be off topic
(looks around blankly then raises an arm and yells FF rox!)
Bipper GOES
In the Bible, God created Adam in his own image. If they had included Lilith, they would have to state that women were equal to men in every respect, something that the Church has never been keen on. Actually, Lilith does appear in the Bible though; She appears as the demonic mother of all prostitutes that seduces men in there sleep and causes pregnant women to spontaneously abort their fetuses. Yes, the Bible isn’t too big on sexually dominant women…Quote:
Originally Posted by bipper
Quote:
Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris
yeah ... they kinda freak me out too!
This is getting way off topic, this thread is about Celes, Maria & Draco, and Final Fantasy VI, not Evangelion or the Bible.
I thought the opera house scene was very beautiful at the time, but I didn't make a huge deal out of it, just a very memorable cinematic. I'm not one to be particularly unaffected by scenes in games, and I found Kefka to be one of the most easy to despise villains in game history. I just never really thought of the opera scene as much more than Square taking an already great game and prettying it up.
The first time I played the opera scene, it was magical. My reasons mostly deal with the music, which I found to be so deep and fascinating that Square created a mini-society that you could actually experience life as an upper-class NPC in the game. I didn't really think about Celes's transformation until this thread. Thanks for opening my eyes to that.
I don't understand how FFVI could be a comedy. I can't remember anything in that game being that funny, except for Kefka's "You sound like chapters from a self-help booklet!" at the end. :\
Apart from Kefka, Ultros was the only comedic thing about FFVI.
Actually most of the main cast have some comedic facet to them in addition to their dramatic sides. Locke has his "treasure hunting," Edgar has his huge boner, Cayenne has his technical ineptitude, Gau is generally wacky, Setzer kidnaps opera singers by grabbing them right off the stage, Mog has major 'tude, Relm is beyond her years and totally hot, etc.Why would it be in the New Testament? Genesis is at the beginning of the book.Quote:
Originally Posted by ThroneofDravaris
The whole reason the Lilith myth was created was to put forth the notion that any woman who wants to take charge of anything must be an evil demon.Quote:
in the hope for Christianity to further oppress women (strictly IMO, but still kind of true).
hmm, I did forget a number of those traits. Clear sign that it's been too long since I played FFVI.
The Lilith myth has always interested me, probably because it's so seldom referenced in Western literature.